Here's my 2 cents about the issues of all the top tier guns. (yes its a wall of text, no there is no tldr) I do not have LH or NH, but having grinded through crucible for a few different weapons, I have my own opinions about it. Granted, I am terrible at PVP. Here is what I've noticed, while there do seem to be some repeat weapons in crucible, I do see a variety of weapons being used. yeah, I do tend to see the mountaintop and recluse coming up, but honestly, I think that's because we are looking for them. How many times do you see you're killed by a spare rations? a different hand cannon? how about lord of wolves? (A good comparison for me is, how many apple watches do you see a day? Now how many normal watches or other smart watches? Personally, I only pay attention to the apple watches cause I have one. I don't care about the others. I notice them because I'm kinda looking for them.) Be honest, is it really that many times you're being killed by those weapons? Or is it just you getting trying to find something to blame for you being killed. For me, I have barely even seen LH and NF, and when I get killed by it I say "oh, good for them. They grinded that out and must be good at PVP" and move on. I'm killed by a lot of weapons, and honestly. It makes me want to get better, try different load outs, and maybe even try those weapons. I personally grinded out recluse and mountaintop, and you know what? I don't particularly like it in pvp. I love using pulse rifles, so bad juju is my go to. Like, in reality, what is the difference between mountain top and a well perked orewings mall? both can 1 shot, the difference is that mountaintop can shoot straight, and orewings can't. How many people are asking for a nerf for that? .... no one. You know why? It's not something that's generally hated. It's also a weapon a lot more people have. My point is, I think we are focusing too much on the problems of a minority of weapons. And I think we're all making a bigger deal than it actually is. Honestly, the biggest issue about pvp right now is supers, I would love it to be more about gun battles than a super battle, but that's just not how it is currently. Next time you're in PVP, take a look at what you're killed by, and think about it. Yeah, you may see a couple of repeated weapons, but, that may be because they just enjoy using that weapon, or are good / highly skilled with it. Go grind for a well perked spare rations or orewings, play with weapons you like and know how to use. Just because something is "meta" or is killing you a bunch, doesn't mean you can't have fun. I personally had a 12.0 kda recently in a match with bad juju. That is the best I've ever done in PVP. There were people on the other team with mountaintop and LH, and yet, I still got a 12.0. I don't want to say get good, as I hate it when people say it to me, all I'm trying to say is, take a step back. Are these weapons really causing that much of a problem? I'm not trying to attack anyone here, my phrasing may not have been the best. But, I think we all need to take a step back, and really think if these weapons are actually causing problems. or if it's just us ganging up on them because they're hard to get.

If they do I might actually get off my lazy butt and go for Not Forgotten.

For a pvp pinnacle weapon it needs to feel OP. Otherwise, why would someone grind for it? It defeats the purpose for the endgame goal. There are more competitive hand cannons atm. Give Luna’s/NF their mojo back!

Oh, I love how the casuals target this threat while defending Striker, One Eyed mask, Truth, Recluse, Jotünn or whatever 0-Skill cheese they need to get a few kills and feel good about themselves.

Great idea 👍 Just keep it 150 rpm

Make it good in PVE again. Hot take, I know. But do it.

Sooo reading through here..yall dont know how to read. He said revert MAG HOWL not THE FIRE RATES. jesus. Its right there. Just read. Please.

Have you tried aiming before shooting?

Uh no. You think crucible has players salty now, it'd be far worse if they did. Not to mention it's encouraged people to Branch out try different things instead of being forced to cling to one thing, all, the, time. Definitely doesn't need reverted.

Tbh NF and LH should never have been created in the first.

Go play cod.

So you need your crutch back

Mag howl should be reverted so it’s viable in pve again. I’ve heard it’s still really highly used in console but on PC it just doesn’t exist. Since it’s been around about a year now I say just make it obtainable easily by everyone and revert it, but make it a 3 tap only with 3 headshots and decrease the range a bit (unless it’s range is nerfed enough by the coming HC range nerf). On console you could also make the recoil and bloom more in line with other handcannons. That way it’s still a very good and deadly option but it has more drawbacks while still fulfilling a good niche in the meta. Those who got NF get it’s skin on the new version that comes out a la redrix, but everyone can get it so it doesn’t feel like the rich get richer so much. That’s what I would do anyways.

Lunas is still the most used weapon in pvp according to multiple stat trackers.

Restore the perk not the archetype. It’s a 3 tap no matter what, now that it’s a 150 anyway.