There’s a lot of talk about this upcoming raid and a lot of people seem to think that we will be fighting Hive in it. Let me convince you why that won’t be the case:
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The only piece of evidence people bring up is that the word “Sorrow” is deeply connected with the Hive.
That’s it.
Let’s debunk this:
1. While Sorrow is almost exclusively mentioned in context with the Hive, that does not mean it’s exclusive to them. It’s still a normal English word.
2. It’s obviously a Cabal/Calus expansion, so why have a Hive raid? Before you tell me that EoW and SoS also didn’t have a connection to their respective DLCs, let me remind you that there were no enemies to have raids against in these DLCs. Panoptes, Nokris and Xol were all killed during their campaigns. Calus story however was still going on. The only other ongoing story we currently have is that of Savathûn and the Dreaming City (see 3.).
3. Who should be in such a raid? Savathûn has received to much buildup to be killed in a small raid in a expansion about Cabal. She will come, but now is not the time, not yet. Xivu Arath on the contrary has almost no buildup or presence in the current story, so she doesn’t deserve a raid yet. Based on the names of some Dreaming City enemies, it seems like she’s currently working with Savathûn.
4. This will be some unconventional evidence, but take a look at this:
Books of Sorrow
Crown of Sorrow
These are the English names. Both contain the word “sorrow”. Please remember that sorrow can have multiple meanings. Now look at this, the german names:
Krone des Leids
Bücher der Trauer
These are the official german names of the Books of Sorrow and Crown of Sorrow, obviously using different translations for the word “Sorrow”. As a german myself, I can confirm that “Leid” and “Trauer” refer to different things.
Leid = agony, pain
Trauer = grief, mourning
So, according to german translations, alternative English names could be:
Crown of Agony
Books of Grief
All this to say that sorrow can be referring to multiple concepts and meanings.
[b][u]Edit:[/u][/b]
I will add this [b]one[/b] possibility for Hive involvement:
An attack by Hive forces on the Leviathan.
While this may be extremely unlikely, it’s not impossible. I say it’s unlikely because there’s no reason for such an attack to take place. Most the Hive forces in the solar system are under the control of Savathûn. She and Xivu Arath are still focused on the Dreaming City. Calus hasn’t shown aggression against the Hive. There’s no current reason for this to happen.
[b][u]Edit 2:[/u][/b]
So the trailer for SoO just came out. A few things to note:
-what looks to be the ascendant plane
-Hive-esque growth or bones on the floor when they teased the raid
I have to admit, that gives more credibility to Hive involvement. I still believe that, for now, there’s [b]no good lore reason[/b] for Hive involvement in the raid. Should they be able to explain it with new lore, then that‘s ok. At the time I made this post, I’m certain that it was/is an unlikely case.
I will however edit the title of this post to accommodate for the new gameplay evidence. Previous title was: “Crown of Sorrow will not be a Hive raid”.
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And just a tip in general: If you’re going to make a claim or theory, try to compile as much evidence as possible. The more evidence, the more reliable it becomes. Just one word isn’t enough.
I hope that I could give an alternative perspective to those that strongly believe in a Hive raid.
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Well... It's technically a Cabal raid?
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And guess what? It IS a Hive Raid. Know why? Because the Crown Of SORROW is a Hive relic. Because SORROW. Hive. SORROW. I was right. You were off. Sorry bud. But it IS because of that one word.
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And this is why we don't speculate and just wait for information instead.
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Seems like hive due to the new emblem from the twab
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Calus confirmed as Jesus. Robot Jesus.
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I agree. It should be another taken raid.
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the trailer literally shows us hive and throne worlds, on/in the leviathan
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Point one yes you are right still a normal English word but to debunk that video game logic ties words into certain groups. Point two well it's not exactly cabal think about calus who we have seen isn't the face of the dlc. It's a frame. So tbh I think the raid will be another god damn taken raid with calus as a big bad taken ass or the taken vex mind as the big bad and calus is a prisoner to the taken
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Considering the new trailer? It is good you decided to change your stance. My bet is still on a Vex raid if it isn't Cabal.
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Here’s where you’re wrong in your assumptions and theories. In all of Destiny, the word “Sorrow” has only been associated with Hive and Darkness. Meaning that yes, Crown Of Sorrow SHOULD be and WILL be a Hive Raid.
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Изменено (Mnkke): 5/28/2019 11:28:24 PMCrown of sorrow. Easy reference to Taken king mantle or hive king. The hive crown. Quria is pretending to be Oryx so they are essentially the holder of the crown of sorrow. Medusa (Vex side of Quria) hates the hive more than us and wants us to help her/it stop them. Most specifically stop dul incaru from finding the distributionary entrance in the DC. So Medusa (Vex Quria) wants us to kill her/it (Quria, Blade transform, Vex and Taken) to stop the attack on the dreaming city. Because while it has some free will it can’t quite control itself completely. Entirely possible for it to be linked to the hive and taken... And one that will be exciting
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Hello again you replied on my crown of sorrow post saying the same thing unfortunately for you a trailer just dropped and it looks like there is an ascendant plane on the leviathan not to mention the fact that there are also hive Olin the trailer hmm I wonder why? Maybe because it’s a HIVE related raid?
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The word Sorrow does relate to the Hive but it also related to the darkness. And according to Anon the Nines leaks we will get a taste of what the piramid ships are in this DLC i think it will be a part cabal raid but then the final boss will be a creature from the piramid ships. As it will build up to D3. I think D3 was going to launch this September but has been pushed back to the following year, so it would have lead perfectly into D3 if schedule was kept
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Oh look, an 'Ascendant Plane" on the Leviathian.
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Изменено (Ghostfire239): 5/27/2019 3:23:42 PMA part of me hopes it will be. I want some hive related gear like the Crota’s End and King’s Fall raid armour.
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It's a cabal raid. It's actually quite obvious. 1. Calus is an emperor. Emperors wear crowns 2. The sorrow part is more confusing though. No idea what that actually entails. Maybe Turtle boi is sad for some reason? Maybe that thing he saw in space made him realize of some kind of impending doom and hes sad for us? (Tinfoil theory) 3. Bungie will not make a hive or vex raid. The hive team is busy for the next big raid (like last wish). Vex got their chance in EOW. Same with fallen in SOTP. 4. It actually might be a cabal raid because it's much easier for bungie to use already designed assets from previous raids for Crown. Leviathan sets will come back with random rolls. Not sure about weapons. Probably a portion will drop from the raid and the rest from other activities. Lile black armory. 5. All these might be wrong and we actually could have give, vex or fallen who invaded leviathan. It would make for a great story. But I feel it's too much to ask. TLDR: Calus is a dumbass. Needs to hire better guards. People are stealing his shit ALL the time -_-
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Why wouldn’t it be Hive? In D2, we’ve had a Vexish Raid, Cabal Raid, Fallen Raid, now we need a Hive Raid. We haven’t seen the true power of the Hive since KF, for gods sakes..
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There was a leak awhile back that Crown of Sorrow will have us kill variks
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Silver.. I mean....taken?
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Hows about Hive....on the Leviathan? 😉
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Изменено (Optimus_immortel): 5/27/2019 2:29:09 AMWhenever I thought cabal raid I thought the flying ship levels on super mario 3 cool. Leviathan was not as good as it could have been. (I didn't want to see jewel encrusted gold plated scenery, I wanted to see and feel similar to thr cabal on mars)
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For me, it's actually not the sorrow part of the name that hints at a hive/taken theme, but the crown part. Throughout both the lore books and the forsaken campaign, we hear multiple times over that Oryx has been killed, but not replaced. We killed the taken king, and by the sword logic his throne was ours to claim, and yet we didn't. We left the taken divided and leaderless. If Savathun makes an attempt to claim the Oryx's throne, then it may be up to us to put a stop to it, perhaps finally becoming the taken king ourselves. I realize how farfetched this idea is, and also how unlikely it is, but also notice that many people have leaked the return of Dark Drinker, the exotic sword from D1, and the crystal used to power the sword was taken from Oryx's blade and was infused with his power. I would, in the main, want such an idea to be in a massive expansion, with a war against savathun and xivu arath as you race for the taken throne, but I dunno there is some reasonable evidence to assume this might happen.
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If I was a betting man, I'd say it's probably gonna be a Taken Raid. Which makes me disappointed, out of the five enemy races, the only one to have a worse Raid experience other than the Taken, are the Cabal. At least in my opinion.
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Oryx lost his dreadnaught. Levithan makes the dreadnaught look like an action figure. Why wouldn’t Savathun not want to upgrade to planet eater That can be used against her in the future?
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Изменено (Equinox Shift): 5/27/2019 12:25:05 PMSo, here’s the thing. What if this isn’t a Cabal Expansion? What if it, in a sense “is” but “isn’t.” What if this is the Cabal teaming up with us, helping us against a greater threat? Cali’s trying to sway us to his cause? Perhaps it is a Hive based raid, with Cabal reinforcement. We know the triangle ships are coming, so what if they send a wave of Hive and Taken to attack the Solar system in greater, more coordinated strikes. The Cabal recognize these threats and aid us. We defeat the Hive or Taken envoy of the new race, and at the end, we receive a small cutscene of the new race reviewing the events of the raid, then again, we have a special event like things happen, similar to the dreaming city being cursed, like waves of darkness, or such, leading up to the next game. This raid is likely a spoiler raid, filled with hidden clues into the next game. Hell this entire expansion is likely just that.