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11/7/2018 1:19:31 AM
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Ah, the anti-capitalism, anti-corporation attitude of the young First Worlder. Life must be so unbearable with these optional monetary transactions.
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I mean there is a limit to most companies greed. There are plenty of companies out there making tons of money and they use maybe half of the money grabbing techniques that bungie uses. Bungie currently has a full priced game, full priced DLCs, loot boxes, optional subscription fee, and pay locked cosmetics. The only thing they have yet to add is a pay to win system such as just straight up buying exotics. The vast majority of companies have no need to resort to these methods, there is a point in time where things just get out of hand. Personally i would say if a game is a full priced game, with full priced DLC, it should not have any items, cosmetic or otherwise, locked behind pay walls. If you pay full price for a game and its DLC, there then should not be more content locked away from you. Paying to get things faster is one thing, but having pay walls is another.
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Destiny 2 has been recently discounted and even free. First to console and then to PC players. The rest of your argument is just assumptions and hyperbole.
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Изменено (Nickel7Dime): 11/7/2018 3:05:22 AMJust because it is free now does not magically classify it as a free to play game. Games that are free with gold are not suddenly free to play games, and neither is destiny. They also made the base game free for a reason, and that reason had absolutely nothing ot do with things like trying to be nice. They wanted people who left early one to return and end up buying the expansion, they crunched the numbers and realized that at this point they were likely to make next to nothing from base game sales, so might as well give it away for free to make money from the full priced DLC. It is still a full priced game, whether or not it is given away for free later on doesnt change that fact. And how is anything that i said anecdotal or an assumption? I listed all the methods bungie uses to make money, and stated the extremely obvious fact that the vast majority of successful companies use maybe half of said methods.
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Your very last statement is anecdotal in the extreme. What evidence backs it up?
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Ummm have you played any games other than destiny? Go play borderlands, halo, battle field, warframe, overwatch, heck even games like fortnight, none of those games use even half of the methods bungie uses and all are incredibly successful. Games like halo have a full priced main game, but have traded out full priced DLCs in exchange for loot boxes, however they do not lock anything behind pay walls. Games like warframe have some systems that fall into the definition of pay to win, however it is a free to play game, and you can technically obtain the cash currency in game by trading with other players. It really isnt anecdotal when it is pretty common knowledge that anyone who plays video games knows first hand. Trying to brush that fact off as anecdotal is nothing short of an attempt to deny the obvious.
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Funny how you brush off pay to win and instead complain about optional cosmetics. That's very telling. Love those 20 dollar Fortnite skins as well. Not. You have no evidence.
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Изменено (Nickel7Dime): 11/7/2018 5:40:14 AMI didnt brush anything off, i very clearly stated that it was a pay to win system, something some people cant seem to admit for some reason, however even for a pay to win system it at least has a method for you to obtain the cash currency without you yourself needing to be the one to buy it. As for fortnight, yes it has micro transactions, but even it has methods to earn all of its currency in game, meaning you can obtain everything by playing, and that is in a free game, and is a heck of a lot more than what can be said for bungies system. It is becoming rather evident that you are just a blind follower of bungie and cant seem to see that their system goes way beyond basically anyone elses. Sure some games have a form of pay to win, such as warframe, but they at least have methods in place where by you can obtain everything in the game without personally needing to pay, and on top of that their game is actually free to play, unlike destiny. Say what you will about games like fortnight (a game i dont really care for), but they dont employ anywhere near as many cash grab methods and destiny does. I also gave you plenty of other examples, but i guess some people will always be in denial. Since i have given you numerous examples i could easily ask you for any evidence of a company using more pay methods than bungie. Name one other game that has a subscription fee system, full priced base game, full priced DLC, loot boxes, and pay wall micro transactions I gave you 6 very popular games, that have significantly less cash grab systems than destiny and you claim that isnt evidence, oh please. Here want some more, CoD, mass effect, final fantasy, mario, sonic, legend of zelda, minecraft, GTA, do you need more?
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The gaming society is a catch-22: developers don’t make enough to properly pay their slav- I mean employees for the amount of hours they work, and thus they resort to tactics that make them money to which they can satiate the money pit known as a publisher that has them on a leash. Meanwhile their primary audiences are people aged 15 to 30 who have free time to burn in their creation and money to spend. But these people typically don’t have the money to haplessly throw at the screen because living in our day and age is expensive. You need to work to make money; more money means more hours means less time playing the game and potentially feeding the monetization tactics. Ultimately, we gamers typically rebuke wasting money on cheap shit like this because: 1. It’s not worth it when we have lives to worry about. 2. The monetization practice is viewed as taboo, therefore we voluntarily boycott the practice. 3. Their offerings are cheap shit. And so studio employees get meager salaries in comparison to the value of their talent. TL;DR: Studios want money so they give us stuff to buy. Gamers have a finite amount of money and time, meaning they don’t buy the studio’s stuff. One can’t win unless the other gets screwed. If only there was a way for video game companies to survive without having to appease their worm-god publishers or selling their audiences a few days’ work of animating dances...
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Did you forget they are actually selling things we already grinded to obtain or maybe even already purchased 😂 i get what you are saying and you are a clever guy but please dont forget they have a practice of taking things away and getting you to buy them back. Please keep that in mind and let this young brother express his frustration.
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What if you picked up this game recently when it was free? How much stuff would you have missed out on? Too often I think we day one guys forget that not everyone has been here since the beginning.
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Cool, if it was f2p from the beginning then yay for everyone. Its not.
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If you want to be the first to experience a game, you will pay more than those who choose to wait. This is true of ALL games.
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While that’s true, its not even slightly relevant in this instance. You’re talking paid release becoming F2P after some time has passed, justifying paid content coming back. Not a discounted game because it’s now a few years old title. So far as i know that’s unprecedented. And because the latter get the game free hardly justifies the rest being charged too. The game is current.
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There are plenty of other AAA games with MTX. it is a known fact that while dev costs have increased substantially over the past 2-3 decades the price for the games has not. So, we can deal with cosmetic mtx or pay more for the game upfront. Not every F2P game makes enough money to support itself, even with mtx, even fewer make it without cheap p2w or p2progress mtx. As gamers we need to look at the big picture. Are the mtx optional or required? Does buying the mtx offer a competitive advantage during gameplay? If these are a no, then, who cares? Dont buy them. If enough dont, then they will have to find another way to offset dev costs, maybe that spicy MTX free version of Destiny 3 will only cost 120 for the the base game.
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There’s plenty of other AAA games not pushing MTX like this, and a decade or two ago I never would have found a game worth 250AUD for two years + in game purchases. So yeah, prices have gone up. So have profits, and these companies arent doing the good deed and including a catch all version of the game for a base price either. I cant look at these practices as a consumer, and say the right move is to time limit and chance roll items, then remove the ability to earn them and charge me for it directly. Business be damned its exploitative and the wrong way to treat your customers.
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Изменено (TuxyDoh): 11/7/2018 2:28:57 AMYoure right there are companies pushing mtx in much worse ways. Look at Warcraft, AAA game, Sub Fee and Mtx all around the game and zero way to earn the items in game. There are others even worse. Facts about MTX, they are here to stay. In game items via loot box are going to cost less, as there is less of a chance you are going to get your item, thus spend more. Direct purchase will usually mean higher cost and no direct in game way to earn. Why would I buy something for cash if it is free. Fortnite is an example, you do not have a chance to earn their hottest skins in game via the paid battle pass, you will still have to pony up $20 for that skin. While I of of the opinion that 10 is too high for an emote, I voice that by not buying it. If there are enough that do, well that shows bungie is spot on with their research. Yes, the companies have profit, that is their mission. If they were not making profit they would not be making games. They are here to make as much profit as they can, why would anyone expect them to leave money on the table?
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Funny you say warcraft, same overlords. Fortnite? Kinda part of my argument in the first place, they’re f2p and with that it’s expected. Destiny is moving in on all of the above constantly. I wouldn’t be surprised if D3 was subscription based. It sounds like you’re pretty much on the same page. Are you just unhappy others are voicing it? sitting in silence and not buying into mtx isn’t gonna cut it - i definitely dont want to sit by idle while these mechanics creep into my games, I’ll get screaming about it, and if it progresses to a point I don’t like, then at least I’ve said something about it before i back right out. Noone ever got what they wanted by looking the other way, im yet to see a vote with my wallet actually achieve anything officially, i have seen voices destroy it before it was released.
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[quote]they’re f2p and with that it’s expected.[/quote] Check out save the world, it is a paid game, loot boxes, skins etc. You want to scream about it, blow out your voice. I prefer optional MTX over 120 base games and 60 dollar dlc all day long. ,[quote] im yet to see a vote with my wallet actually achieve anything officially, i have seen voices destroy it before it was released.[/quote] You know why your vote with your wallet didnt succeed? Because you got outvoted. More people use the current system by choice than have outrage and a company making money by offering an optional add on to the game. If you are against MTX you have to take the hard line and be against them all, even F2P which you think is acceptable. As long as mtx bring in billions of dollars, they are not going anywhere. Voices did not destroy anything, I am assuming you are referring to EA and the Battlefront mess, guess what, those same MTX are in the game right now. They just adjusted the price and put them back in.
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Изменено (Kd): 11/7/2018 1:09:25 PMSave the world is f2p, or you can purchase early access now if you’re a dunce. They simply delayed it because fortnite is a cash cow. And yes, f2p is a very different model and exists because certain platform dont garner purchases like console or PC. They arent necessarily a bad thing. Destiny where I live was 150 at launch and I think the expansion pass was 80 or so, so whatever I guess. Personally I’d love it if we still got charged the same amount and those practices were long gone. I really dont get your stance, you’re against MTXs just the same, only we’re saying so and you’re hell bent on giving companies the silent treatment? You know what i never saw published out there? “MTX destroyed by customers voting with their wallets”. Its a pipedream. By all means, do it, its logical. But why try to stamp out the other voices also saying to do so? They have changed a games course, considering you could pull it up from memory you obviously know all about it, and that game isnt a shade on what it was going to be, it was the closest thing the entire infustry ever had to being out in check. Instead of telling me i got outvoted using your tactic, how bout letting people also speak so they might inform others, and maybe join your cause in the future?
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Изменено (TuxyDoh): 11/7/2018 1:11:35 PM[quote]Save the world is f2p, or you can purchase early access now if you’re a dunce. They simply delayed it because fortnite is a cash cow.[/quote] Sure... sure.. they have been "delaying" it for quite some time. Until it is f2p it is not f2p [quote]Destiny where I live was 150 at launch and I think the expansion pass was 80 or so, so whatever I guess. Personally I’d love it if we still got charged the same amount and those practices were long gone.[/quote] The regional economy and currency sets the price, if your country has more or less taxes or if your currency is worth more or less than the dollar, bungie cannot control that. [quote] I really dont get your stance, you’re against MTXs just like the ones you’re arguing here, only they are saying so and you’re hell bent on giving companies the silent treatment?[/quote] I am not against micros, as bungie is using them. I do not want the base cost of games to go up. Which they will without mtx. Mtx is a way for the company to offset dev costs. Games cost considerably more to make now vs 20 years ago yet we are paying the same price (base game). That is due to the companies being able to use mtx to make their profit. As long as they are optional, cosmetic, unobtrusive and not hampering progression in the game, bring them on. I will buy if I want something bad enough to justify the cost to me. [quote]But why try to stamp out the other voices also saying to do so?[/quote] I am not trying to stamp out said voices. I do have a different opinion and voice it in the same way. I do not think it is a scam and can see the long term benefit from mtx. beyond the "mtx are evil and bungie is shady af for using them" tone that gets set in many of these posts.
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Just a note, your statement about things like currency effecting the price is both right and wrong at the same time. And bungie does at least partly get to control that because they do in fact set the price for their games. Yes the value of a currency can most certainly play a role in costs for a game, but in some instances you can look at it as nothing more than an excuse. Take canada for an example, canada currently pays 80 instead of 60 for new games, the reason for this is claimed to be a difference in dollar value, and yet there has been times when the dollar difference was even more and the price never changed, and in fact there where times when the canadian dollar was more than the U.S. and yet the price for a new game didnt drop. Same can be said in cases like australia, their dollar amount isnt that differnt and yet new games can cost far more. The excuse for this is further shipping, and yet the digital prices are just as high. Which by the way a company can set different digital and physical prices. So while yes they can be factors in prices, when looked at more closely, 9 times out of 10 they look a whole lot more like excuses than anything else.
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For one talking about facts so much... go look up the wiki for save the world and read the first paragraph, then remember this when you finally get it for free. You’re welcome, dont hit purchase just yet. I’m not getting into an argument about the rest as there are a million aspects to it and poor devs simply doesnt apply to the largest entertainment industry on the planet making millions more than you or me. Its also not the only reason MTXs suck for gaming wholesale. If you truly think they’re unobtrusive and haven’t come to effect gameplay, you should check out what is pinging on your map most everytime you visit the tower, thats the exact opposite of unobtrusive. Then thank those that managed to give you an actual progression system in battlefront, because voices really did change that. Try not to think of when bungie was hiring for a way to link progression to eververse a year ago, or how we just got a money only in game option for loot you missed through progression... from a year ago. Or how xp for that same loot was throttled, called out, then doubled down on. Otherwise? I guess you’re the model customer.
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[quote]you should check out what is pinging on your map most everytime you visit the tower, thats the exact opposite of unobtrusive[/quote] OMG your right, she was pinging to give me my free items. so evil. [quote]Then thank those that managed to give you an actual progression system in battlefront, because voices really did change that.[/quote] They retuned the prices of the mtx, nothing else changed [quote]Try not to think of when bungie was hiring for a way to link progression to eververse a year ago[/quote] You do realize there are several progression systems in any game right? The EV progression does not interfere with the game progressions so, does not bother me. [quote]how we just got a money only in game option for loot you missed through progression... from a year ago. [/quote] Yes, on items that were earnable in game, and again, cosmetics, and does not interfere with my gameplay in the slightest. [quote]Or how xp for that same loot was throttled, called out, then doubled down on. [/quote] yeah, that was a rough 2 weeks with throttled xp. I love how that one thing seems to be the root cause of all that is wrong with the game. They have made corrections and improved the game in damn near everyway since. Move on already. [quote]poor devs simply doesnt apply to the largest entertainment industry on the planet making millions more than you or me.[/quote] So, since the industry makes money (using the current model including mtx) that means they do not have the right to continue making money? Without mtx, games will go up in cost to keep the same profit margins. it is a business.
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Like i said, model customer.
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meh, dont like it, dont buy it.
