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Изменено (Jörmungandr):
6/17/2017 9:31:54 AM
5
There's a reason murder is such a bad crime... you're ending the life of someone who wants to live (if they don't, it's assisted suicide). They know they are alive and want to keep it that way. Many people have emotional attachment to them and would be deeply saddened by their loss. A fetus has no clue that it's alive, nor that it ever will be. No one besides the mother will have a real emotional attachment to it. Family members who wanted a niece/nephew/grandchild/etc might not be happy about its loss, but they wouldn't be saddened by its loss the way they would the loss of a 10 year old they'd actually gotten to know. So, no one would truly miss them, and they don't actively wish to live, nor are they even aware they exist or that they ever will. So, I see no problem with abortion, be it out of necessity or convenience.
To add to this, there are 2 alternatives and neither are good. The first is to be kept after birth. If the mother just didn't want the baby in the first place, it's likely they would not be happy about having to put up with it. Its life would be full of resentment from its mother (and possibly by it's father). This, at best causes a terrible childhood. At worst, it comes down to abuse and lasting mental disorders and scarring. The 2nd option is adoption. Who the -blam!- knows how long it would take to get adopted, let alone if it would get adopted into a good family. At best, it gets adopted into a good family and always wonders why it's original family got rid of it. Mental shit could easily arise from that knowledge. At worst, it gets adopted by abusive people and either gets stuck with them forever or gets sent back, then has to be adopted once more. Whether this next family is better or worse than the last remains to be seen. Mental scarring and other issues would definitely arise from this. Now, while either of these options are hell, if I - right now - was given the option of death or going to the adoption agency, it would be an easy choice. But, for a fetus, that has no clue that it's alive or ever will be, is it not better to save it from all of this?
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Изменено (Boggy): 6/20/2017 7:21:29 AMIf you're asleep, you have no clue if you're alive or not, you have the self-awareness of a "fetus." 😜 So it's okay to kill someone in their sleep? I was not aware of this. Size does not matter, it is a human, or by that logic we should kill short people. Situation does not matter unless it ends in the inevitable death of the mother, in which case it's better that one be saved instead of two dead. Just because there is a possibility of poverty/poor conditions does not mean you should end a life. In which case we should just kill poor people and put people out of their misery. (Inb4ban) Essentially, getting rid of a human life because it may be a liability or a cruelty sounds a lot like the mafia, but with the word "fetus" to create the delusion that it's okay to end a human life if it feels inconvenient or dangerous.
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Изменено (Jörmungandr): 6/20/2017 9:00:54 AMDifference is, we wake up. We know with 99% certainty that we [i]will[/i] wake up tomorrow. We know we were alive before we went to sleep and we know we'll wake up when we're done sleeping. Fetuses are not in the same situation. I agree, size does not matter. But brain development does (since it leads to consciousness, and thus, self-awareness). No, we should not kill the poor (my reasoning being the aforementioned reasons why murder shouldn't happen, and why abortion isn't murder). But, hobos and those living in poverty suffer a lot. More than anyone besides terrorists, abusers, or murderers should. But, I have to question why anyone would want to bring a child into such different when they could prevent it before the fetus even knew they existed. If I must simplify things, I'll just go with the age-old quote "I think, therefore I am". I don't see fetuses doing much thinking
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Изменено (Boggy): 6/20/2017 1:47:07 PMDoes brain development really have anything to do with humanity? What about disabled people? Those guys are adorable, but they can be a burden on parents in the sense of it creating more work for them, not love of course. Should we kill them because it's convenient? As for waking up, so? What does that have to do with my original point, while you're asleep you are completely unaware. When babies are born, they wake up to a brand new world. Saying that one stage of development is morally right to kill them off implies that all stages of development are. What logical principle outlines that after three months you're a human. I'm probably way younger than you, so please don't try to kill me. I am still mentally and physically developing, and if you're not in a sterile isolated room at 99 years old right now, so are you. Should Grandpa be able to kill you? As for our friend, the fetus, isn't ending a life because of the potential for it to be a bad one like killing someone because they were in the parking lot, and thus had the capacity to key your car, and the potential was deemed as a threat and you put a man down? We are not God. We cannot tell the future. If a child has to be born into hardships, so be it. Should we kill poor people and put them out of their misery?
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Disabled people? Adorable? BWAHAHAHAHA! If their intelligence level is only slightly impaired, fine. If they are in their 30s and act like their <5, you're damn right we should put them out of their misery. How does saying one stage of life makes it okay to kill them infer that it's okay to do it at any stage? It doesn't. They don't know that they exist or that they ever have or will. So, what's the problem with taking away something they don't even know of? People I comas can't think now, sure. But they have in the past and they either will in the future or die before they can. Also, a coma is essentially an endless lucid dream, so they are thinking, they just cant express it to the outside world. Fetuses aren't thinking at all. They have never been self-aware, not in the present or past. As I said with the poor people thing, if they wish to die, fine. No, we should not kill them, because it constitutes murder. Abortion does not (for reasons I already explained). On top of that, is it not better to save a baby from that hellish life before they are forced into it?
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In the coma we could kill them then. I have no comment as to whether we should kill disabled people. That's just... I clap for you. Nice.
