[quote] No power creep? Seriously? [/quote] Seriously. [quote]Most of the nerfs in this game was due to power creep.[/quote] Nope. Most nerfs are based on popularity, they figure out what the majority of the community are using and bring what makes those guns more popular down to get them closer to other guns. The end result being a couple of days of research and testing, and new guns emerging to get somewhat close to the old guns, until those guns become meta and everyone starts getting their desired rolls then we get another round of nerfs. When was the last time a gun was released that was so powerful and such an obvious best in slot that it immediately jumped into the meta? Yeah ... exactly. [quote] We skip entire phases of fights because of power creep. [/quote] ... like who? Riven? That's not a power thing that's a mechanics thing, and at this point I think it's pretty obvious Bungie have just let that one go, given that probably 90% of the people who do Riven don't even know how to do the fight legit. [quote] I would bet they are player in the game that have never had the pleasure of the boss in the inverted spire chase after them when on the ground and his health is low. [/quote] Wait? The strike? ... who cares? That strike was tuned for players at 140 light. [quote] most of the time he is dead seconds after he appears. You don't even have to fight him on the 2 level, much less on the ground.. [/quote] Again, nobody cares. Nobody wants to spend 25 minutes running vanilla strikes they've already done a thousand times before, and that they out power by over 800 levels. If you want more of a challenge do a 980 Nightfall. [quote]You just talked about reskin weapons, power creep is why we have reskins.[/quote] Well done, you've completely missed the point that was being made in a pretty spectacular way. The issue with reskins is that if a weapon is retired, simply to come back with a slightly different skin but be essentially the same gun, this has no value to the player. This is the same principle as your boss walking up to you one day and telling you... "Hey good news and bad news, the bad news is I'm going to be paying you half as much from now on, but the good news is you can work double shifts so you're not going to lose anything!" This situation has no benefit to you, this is an entity increasing the value of their time and resources by devaluing your time and your resources. This is a BAD deal, and anyone with an IQ above room temperature should be able to recognise it as such. Frankly I find it amazing that we even need to have this conversation. Also the reskin issue is a circumstance Bungie are looking to create, retire old guns so you can continually bring them back, so rather than create new and interesting guns you can just have a set stockpile of pre-existing configurations to retool and put into the system as the old versions of that configuration expire. The issue people have with new guns with the same rolls as their current guns at present has nothing to do with powercreep, it has to do with lack of motivation and incentive. If you already have a feeding frenzy + multikill clip assault rifle the desire to go out and farm another feeding frenzy + multikill clip assault rifle is non-existent for many players. This creates a feeling of having nothing to do. The solution to this is to create and ADD new and interesting things, rather than try to SUBTRACT things we already have. It also doesn't take much to make new guns more desirable than old ones. We have things like Barrier and Overload champions now, how about new guns have intrinsic perks that allow them to take down barriers or stop unstoppable champions without needing to take up a mod slot? It doesn't take much to make weapons desirable or worth getting, and that's only working with what's available. Bungie has complete control over the game world, they can implement anything which is why it's easy to see that Bungie are just looking for an easy way to recycle content at the players expense. [quote]Bungie is too worried about power creep to take chances on making us new ones.[/quote] This is an excuse, and whilst it may be a concern for them it's one that anyone looking at the game with an objective eye can see should be a very minor concern in the game with respect to guns. It's also a concern which is causing them to ruin guns which should be powerful and better than anything else, and creating weird situations like the current domination of Spare Rations. Outside of exotics Luna's Howl and Not Forgotten should objectively be the best hand cannons in the game, given the effort required to get them, and they were. Until the thing that made them special got nerfed causing them to fall behind Austringer which subsequent nerfs to range crated the Spare Rations meta. This isn't powercreep, this is the opposite of powercreep, this is a lean into mediocrity. We're not blowing up the power curve here, we're consistently chipping away at anything even remotely interesting or special. I already said this in a post in another thread, but I have tested this stuff myself extensively. I've gotten a 750 light gun, and a 970 light gun and tested the difference between them, a 200 light level difference equates to killing a yellow bar ogre 2 seconds faster in a time to kill that was roughly 40 seconds. A 200 power difference, amounts to 2 seconds in real world terms. The mechanics of this game simply do not allow for powercreep in this aspect, and one gun being better than another gun is not powercreep. Some guns should be objectively better than others, but they should also be hard to get. It should be something that is considered a milestone. This is how you create aspirational content, which is what we need more than a constant recycling of guns we're already earned. [quote]So we get a handful of weapons that do very little differently, or do the exact same thing as we already have.[/quote] Intrinsic champion perks, intrinsic stat boosts, double masterworks, buffs that much like "Ascendance" allow you to see hidden collectibles or other stuff that would not only give you a reason to get the gun but something to do when you have it! There is so much they could do for relatively little effort, but they're so focused on trying to do as little as possible and hoping there are more people like you than people like me. Sad thing is I suspect they're right. [quote]Loot maybe not important to you. You may care less about new weapons and such. Alot of people have been clammering for them for a good while. Asking for vender refreshes ect. So loot is very much in demand. It's not just youtubers, and streamers.[/quote] Once again you completely miss the point. Dude, there are like 30 guns in the entire game I don't have. Most being blue levelling gear that just never dropped when I was levelling... when that was a thing. Obviously I care about loot. Obviously I want vendors to be relevant for something other than shards. Obviously I want more things to do in the game. That's not what is being discussed here. I'm not opposed to Bungie adding new things, I'm opposed to them trying to implement planned obsolescence of the things we've already gotten and milestones we've already achieved so they don't have to be creative or interesting and can just constantly pull stock configurations from a pile in order to con us into spending twice the time getting half the loot. I like the game, I love the world, but I can't help but feel Bungie consistently squander what they have looking for short cuts and quick fixes to do as little as possible and it's already having negative consequences. My clan effectively died during season of the dawn. We'd been doing the same raid for 6 months, the same Nightfalls, the same dungeon. We have all the loot we want, we have all the armour we need and then it gets to the point where the only thing you can passably do is PvP... but then if you're going to spend all your time in PvP is Destiny the game you want to play exclusively for PvP? If my clan was anything to go by the answer to that is no. Now if I was to sell those guys on coming back to Destiny, do you think the news that their stuff now has an expiration date is going to make that easier or harder?

All I'm going to say is you can believe that if you want. Simple truth power creep does exist. You can call it what you want. Doesn't change it. I think this will in the end make a better system, a more healthy one. I knew it would make people mad. This community gets mad at any and all changes though. This one is controversial, and yes some people will quit the game. Some will scream they will, but won't. Either way, it's their choice, and people have every right to make their choice. There isn't a right or wrong about that. However I'm glad they are doing it.

[quote] Simple truth power creep does exist. You can call it what you want. Doesn't change it. [/quote] That isn't an argument, that's just an opinion. I agree the concept exists, it just doesn't exist in this game within the context of guns. If it did you could point to a gun and make a case for it. [quote] I think this will in the end make a better system, a more healthy one. [/quote] Again, that's not an argument. [quote] I knew it would make people mad. This community gets mad at any and all changes though. [/quote] Usually with good reason, people choose to spend their time and money in this game. They form bonds and social groups with people in this game, therefore they are invested in the health and relative well being of the game. The fact that Bungie and their short sighted corner cutting in order to do the bare minimum seems to be the biggest threat to this game? That isn't the player bases fault. [quote] This one is controversial, and yes some people will quit the game. Some will scream they will, but won't. Either way, it's their choice, and people have every right to make their choice. There isn't a right or wrong about that. [/quote] No, but there is a good or bad. Bungie is losing on average 20,000 players per month on PC alone. Is that good for the game and the community, or bad? I would argue it's bad. Would it be better or worse to reverse that trend? I would argue it would be better. However we don't have any power at Bungie, so all we can do is make our arguments and hope they hit the eyes or ears of someone who actually cares. [quote]However I'm glad they are doing it. [/quote] If you really believe this would be beneficial for you and something you would enjoy you are free to delete everyting in your valur any time you like and start over. At least that would be your choice, you made a decision with what to do with items you invested your time into getting. However you're not going to make that choice are you? Why? You don't need to answer me, I know the answer, I just want you to follow that rabbit down the hole.