[quote]Yes. Because everybody's assertions are based on doing events that are so far below our light level that they don't take I to consideration the massive buff we get naturally from being over leveled. Imagine like a final fantasy game. You don't endgame gear when you're level 99 and the final boss is level 50. Same here. Blind Well would be SUBSTANTIALLY harder if it had a tier 4 at 750 light and Wells would lose a good portion of their effectiveness. Proof? 750 managerie, where well loses a lot of its effectiveness. Read through the comments. There are locks all over the lalce saying well doesn't work in 750 managerie. Why? Because it doesn't work when the bad guys are as powerful (or more powerful) than you are. That would indicate that it's actually balanced. With a bunch of 750 light activities, it would be more challenging for the players that want challenge AND it'd be more accurate to deduce what is actually OP or under powered because it would remove variables like being over leveled for the event. It makes perfect sense, I don't know why the pushback is so negative. But then again, I called it in the post so yknow, people be people.[/quote] Because every. Single thing. Youve said here. Is the definition of power creep. You’re suggesting that Well be a NECESSITY to activities due to enemies being so strong that a normal Guardian with a hand cannon can’t do a THING. If we stick to your model, and left overpowered abilities unchecked and just made more powerful enemies to compete, suddenly we reach a Destiny where we have a Celestial Nighthawk with infinite ammo as a primary weapon. And enemies that tank it like it’s nothing then proceed to one shot you. You ever try Heroic Menagerie without a Well, or a Banner Shield, hell even a BUBBLE for crying out loud? Go do a Deathless Arunak with NO WELL and then I’ll give you an upvote. Power creep. If it were up to your logic every activity would be structured like Reckoning, or worse. Well is so overpowered Bungie has built activities around it and forced it to be a necessity while other things get discarded.

No, I'm not suggesting anything other than it's flawed to call something overpowered when everybody is playing an acvitiy where being max level already makes them overpowered. It's a chicken or the egg argument, basically. My assertion is that everything is OP when you, the character, are already 250 light over an event requirement. Take away Well, fine, but it doesn't make bad guys in heroic strikes or the Blind Well any harder because you, the guardian, are too powerful for them to deal any real damage to you anyway. I did Blind Well last week with a Slova Bomb because it deals stupid good damage to the boss. I barely use well anymore because it's unnecessary most of the time. That's the point I'm making. Bungie is nerfing something that is basically only "useful enough to actually be needed" occasionally, which I consider to be what all supers should be, occasionally the best option. By making it a bad option all the time, they're not making the game harder, they're just forcing change for the sake of change. 6 guardians in a Blind Well don't need a Well. They simply don't. It's not hard enough to necessitate one. Hell, 3 guardians in a Well don't need one. It's not hard enough to require it. That's what I'm asserting. Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of the game due to new content. If you want to see power creep in action, look at how Luna Howl and NF wrecked Crucible for 9 consecutive months because all other weapons were second tier by comparison. That's real power creep. The fact that this game has 1200 pieces of gear and 25% of the community uses the same 5 weapons is power creep. Using a well when you have a 250 light advantage and calling it power creep is ignoring facts to drive a narrative. The fact that those events stayed at 500 (or less, heroic story missions are 320 iirc) means that everything is going to feel like power creep because you keep getting more powerful and they stay static. If we had 750 light events, then a lot of this OP stuff wouldn't feel OP anymore. That's facts man.

I think you need to learn how Light level affects the game. https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/8jlwjq/how_power_level_affects_incoming_damage_warmind/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app Spreadsheet from back during Warmind. https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/9gwl1u/powerlevel_based_damage_scaling_in_pve_aka_power/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app Verified in Forsaken. So your assertion about being 250 light levels above enemies is moot. Let’s take Blind Well, shall we? Tier 3 Blind Well is recommended 560. A 750 Guardian is going to be doing the same amount of damage as a 610 Guardian due to the fact that deltas cap at 50 light levels. From there down/up they scale appropriately. 50 light levels difference is the only difference. Anything more than 50 light levels is irrelevant. So let’s take Heroic Menagerie. The recommended light level 750 activity with enemies that scale up to 770 power level when Calus demands you fight worthier opponents, and ALL enemies in boss encounter are recommended 770. That means that enemies are 20 light levels above a max player. Which means that a player is dealing ~65% of normal damage and taking ~200% damage. You hit almost half as hard and take about double the damage. A normal Guardian can’t survive and perform effectively under these circumstances without something like Well. That doesn’t mean the answer to our problem is to leave Well as is, and keep making these activities like that, because it makes Well the only option. It makes Well an absolute necessity in these activities because Bungie is scaling the difficulty and Light Level of enemies in order to be able to kill you in that Well. So consider, normal Light Level enemies + no well = potential death. 20+ light level enemies + well = potential death. Bungie has to artificially increase enemy damage output by capping the regular Guardian to make up for it with Well. Now consider. Regular light enemies + well = NEVER DYING. For 30 seconds you are effectively invulnerable to anything except wipe mechanics and the Architects. Misadventure. You’re unkillable in regular activities when enemies are scaled to contend with you on even ground. But it’s no longer even ground, because you have Well. And then, 20+ power enemies + NO WELL = practically guaranteed death. Well is a literal necessity in these activities because enemies melt you so fast you need the constant health boost just to have time to react and hide. So we have it to where it becomes horribly unbalanced in the activities. The answer is NEVER to just keep artificially boosting enemy damage in order to counter the boost that Well gives, because then it makes Well a necessity and everything else a Warlock has to offer unusable. Or building Bosses health pools to try to make one phasing difficult even with empowering and constant reload. Or make activities like Reckoning where enemies spawn front back and center in an effort to overwhelm you with the raw number of enemies or stomp you off out of the Well. POWER. CREEP. Make players too strong, enemies can’t compete. The answer isn’t to just make enemies hit harder, because then the few things players have to contend with that will become the ONLY THINGS THEY CAN USE. Try Reckoning without a Well. Try Heroic Menagerie without a Well. Try one phasing Gahlran without a Well. LET ME KNOW HOW IT GOES.

I checked your sources, it says that damage is capped at 100% in prestige events and if you put your 5 of swords into your vault, it uncaps the damage and you do end up with an advantage. Considering that none of your subsequent examples are prestige events, the data from which you base all of your conclusions does not prove your point. It actually actively disproves it. You do get a light level bonus for being over leveled and, according to multiple people, it's called at 50 light. That's still extra damage and extra damage resistance. So yes, you are more powerful in non prestige events, which to my knowledge is all events unless specified as prestige by the game (and nightfalls if you have 5 of swords in your inventory). Sorry homie, read your own sources before spouting off opinions. I debunked that with your links in less than 2 minutes. Sorry.

[quote]I checked your sources, it says that damage is capped at 100% in prestige events and if you put your 5 of swords into your vault, it uncaps the damage and you do end up with an advantage. Considering that none of your subsequent examples are prestige events, the data from which you base all of your conclusions on are factually wrong. You do get a light level bonus for being over leveled and, according to multiple people, it's called at 50 light over. So yes, you are more powerful in non prestige events, which to my knowledge is all events unless specified as prestige by the game (and nightfalls if you have 5 of swords in your inventory). Sorry homie, read your own sources before spouting off opinions. I debunked that with your links in less than 2 minutes. Sorry.[/quote] Read again. The damage. That a GUARDIAN DOES is capped at 100%. That means that it being over-leveled in a Prestige activity grants you no bonus damage, but you stair TAKE increased damage. Blind Well is not a Prestige activity, so you deal increased damage. The only one that might change is in Heroic Tier 4 Blind Well. Since Heroic Menagerie is exactly that, Heroic, there is not a cap to any damage. You do ~65% damage, enemies deal ~200% damage. Five of Swords only applies to Nightfall. Nothing else. And the OPs did NOT have their Five of Swords in their Vaults, they were utilizing them to change enemy Light Level to test this experiment in the first place. Does. Not. Change the fact that you deal ~65% damage in Heroic Menagerie. Or that you take ~200% damage.

No, it doesn't. That's exactly what I said occurred. That's exactly what I meant by making the game harder. Make bad guys hit harder and make us hit less hard. It stops anything from feeling OP when the OP thing are the things you're fighting. This is endgame, it's supposed to be that kind of difficult. Wells don't work in 750 managerie like they do anywhere else in the game because anywhere else in the game gives you the 50 light boost in damage and they deal less damage back to you, which makes a thing that works fine in actually hard activities feel OP in old, lower light activities. You're basically providing stats that prove exactly what I said as being accurate. What are you trying to say exactly?

I’m saying that artificially boosting enemy effectiveness by increasing incoming damage and decreasing outgoing damage, then making Well the balancing factor is not proper game balance. Well is the only thing that makes Reckoning and Heroic Menagerie really feasible for the average player. And to go without it, means failure and death. Making one thing indispensable is not game balance.

Boosting bad guy damage and decreasing guardian damage in high light activities has been a mechanic of this game since Destiny 1. In the thread you posted, people were bragging about how they did last wish while underleveled strictly because of that handicap. That's how they ALWAYS do it lol. It hasn't changed in half a decade of Destiny! Now it's suddenly a bad move because Well exists? It's one of the oldest tricks in the book!