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1/29/2022 10:43:22 PM
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No.
I’m going to say: [i]You’re right.[/i]
Bungie has spent two years catering to the whims of streamers and a vocal minority of top players.
The result is —as you said—-a miserable experience for average players. Massive skill creep due to player loss…and a game that is steadily dying because it is incapable of replacing its losses.
Which means…soon…Bungie is going to get stuck supporting a pvp experience that costs more to maintain than it generates in revenue.
AKA a money loser.
English
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No. It shows that there is probably a kiddy pool for brand new accounts. And that once you leave that, you have a playlist that is in end-stage skill creep. What he is describing is exactly what you’d expect to see.
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Probably or definitely? Because if it’s probably, then we don’t really have any evidence that a MM “kiddie pool”exists. What we do have video evidence of, is that it doesn’t take long for the game to make sure that TV doesn’t absolutely dominate lower skilled players. It even goes so far to do the thing that most people who enjoy playing PVP in this game are complaining about, it consistently puts TV on the losing team, against stacks of skilled players, not quite at his level but still high ELO. This is literal timestamped video evidence of a reality that overwhelmingly contradicts your view of it.
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The point is that what TV posted doesnt refute the issue of CBMM based skill creep. It corroborates it. Especially since he keeps mentioning that he is initially only paired with other new players. Not experienced players of limited skill. The composition of the lobbies with their wide variances in individual player skill levels also corroborates end-stage skill creep. Skill creep creates an environment that feels like SBMM to someone like TV…because lesser players have largely been chased from the playlist. So he’s going to face what is left. The really good players like himself. But it creates a environment that is hostile and exploitative for players of more modest ability. TV has being doing this long enough to know this and to pretend like he doesn’t just stinks of manipulation. To try to stave off SBMM in a playlist that is slowly but inexorably dying from three years of CBMM and unchecked skill creep.
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I don’t see how you can literally watch someone move from a low skill tier in less than 5 hours, into an much higher tier and believe that CBMM is automatically serving up bad players to good players and streamers. Not to mention, until this MM kiddie pool is proven to exist(at that time I will modify my thoughts), it’s apparent that there is some form of SBMM or variant of it that takes skill into account, and you can see it at work in TV’s video. Destiny works overtime to make sure that everyone has a good game. And in service of that manipulation, it’s made no one but those who defeat the system by stacking, have a good time at all.
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1. Because I know the math. 2. Statistical analysis was created (along with the Scientific Method) to counter the human tendency to motivated reasoning and confirmation bias. 3. What TV experienced is exactly what the math would predict. Especially when you have better players stacking in an effort to defeat lobby balancing. The lobby composition is not what you would see in a SBMM environment. 4. As a content creator whose business model requires that he have access to players that are significantly less skilled than himself, TV has a financial motive to do something like this so that he can mobilize his viewers to advocate for conditions that benefit himself. So the only question is did he do this out of ignorance or intent?
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Synge_Xにより編集済み: 2/1/2022 1:39:03 PMI’m not a fan of his. Nor do I worship at the alter of streamers/content creators. But I do know that he forecasted his plan ahead of time to start a new light character, to challenge himself by playing at a disadvantage. His findings were a byproduct, so I don’t believe he intended to deceive(if your hypothesis was correct). As for confirmation bias, remember, when YOU saw something that didn’t jive with your assessment of the situation you crafted a hypothetical “kiddie pool”. It’s just as likely, right or wrong that you are suffering from confirmation bias. One point that I know you are biased on is the group of people who dislike SBMM. The picture you paint is skilled pro’s clutching their ability to prey on lesser players, when a casual search of this community, and several others, along with a stat comparison shows quite conclusively, that players ranging from a wide spectrum of skill don’t prefer SBMM. On that last statement, I do acknowledge, that low to average skilled players who fiercely reject SBMM, are “engaged” players, as opposed to the hoards of non-engaged casuals fleeing any situation where they are challenged with tough lobbies(in your view). I would actually argue that the majority of blowback surrounding SBMM is coming from Low to Average skilled players.
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He hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt here. TV is a former tournament Halo player. So the notion that he is somehow unfamiliar with skill creep doesn’t ring true here. I can’t prove that he did this to mislead, but this is [i]really[/i] suspect.
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What’s hilarious is that you completely misunderstood TV. He is here saying that LOBBY BALANCING is treating his new account the same as his main That’s why his lobbies feel so “sweaty” His video isn’t really a commentary on skill creep
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Why do people always jump to the conclusion that the only reason that you disagree with them is because you "didn't understand" them? Geez...the arrogance. I GOT his point. The point is that TV is WRONG...and going a thousand miles per hour wrong. Like I said earlier. What he is seeing is exactly that I would expect to see in a playlist that has had CBMM for almost three years, and is in end-stage skill creep. Yes, his video wasn't about skill creep,[b] because that is a conversation that it is NOT in his self-interest to have. [/b]
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TheArtistにより編集済み: 2/1/2022 3:44:47 PMThe irony clearly hasn't dawned you yet. I can wait. The blindness is yours actually. Since you are the one who is having to result to insults in order to "get your point across". Not me. ...and you aren't mocking my point, [b]you're demonstrating it. [/b] TV is simply, mathematically wrong. His "anectdotal experience" is poor quality data. Lastly he is not an objective observer. He has a business model that is dependant upon having access to weaker players, and a vested interest in either preserving the status quo, and or stumping for getting rid of lobby balancing. Heres another "internet moron" quote for you: [i]"If there is a con man in the room, and you can't figure out who the mark is. It means YOU are the mark. "[/i] Check to make sure you still have your wallet.
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Im mocking your point because of how deluded it is. You sound like an internet crazy who thinks the government is personally conspiring to kill you. Ive made more than my fair share of posts breaking down the statistical woes of SBMM. By the numbers. With math and diagrams to make it as easy to understand as possible. But the pro sbmm crowd is so incredibly stupid that they dont even read it half the time. Then they come out making grandiose statements, claiming they know what good players experience, feel and believe, despite never being a good player themselves. Its laughable.
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TheArtistにより編集済み: 2/1/2022 4:20:25 PM[quote]Im mocking your point because of how deluded it is.[/quote] Circular argument. [quote]You sound like an internet crazy who thinks the government is personally conspiring to kill you.[/quote] Appeal to Ridicule. [quote]Ive made more than my fair share of posts breaking down the statistical woes of SBMM[/quote] No, you've made a number of posts with baseless assertions that are back by your usual dose of mockery, insults and other Ad Hominem attacks. [quote]But the pro sbmm crowd is so incredibly stupid that they dont even read it half the time.[/quote] Or like me, they simply realize that you don't know what you're talking about. [quote]Then they come out making grandiose statements, claiming they know what good players experience, feel and believe, despite never being a good player themselves.[/quote] Or maybe they simply LISTENED to what those players had to say...in those rare moments when they spoke truthfully ("Why am I being punished for being good?" "I don't want to sweat all the time"? "I can't play with my lesser skilled friends. They have a terrible time.") Then: 1. Simply believed what they said. 2. Pointed out the sense of entitlement and hypocrisy entailed in those comments. No magic required. Just some basic communication skills. [quote]Its laughable.[/quote] Yes, it is. But it still hasn't dawned on you yet who the butt of the joke is.....
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Im telling you the honest truth. Good players find SBMM to be nearly unplayable due to the -blam!- connection quality and matchmaking times that result from it. (worse with stricter sbmm than loose) But I will also be honest and say that, even if the connection and queue length issues were non existent, I likely wouldnt enjoy 6v6 sbmm UNLESS the sandbox drastically improved. (i quite enjoyed the SBMM matches in d1 on the rare occasion that the connections were liveable when the sandbox wasnt pure garbage) I also strongly support LOOSE sbmm in 6v6, in the form of outlier protection. (I have no business in lobbies with a 0.3kd player that doesnt even know all the controls for the game) But i understand that SBMM is a slippery slope that can quickly become an unplayable experience for me. If i was in charge of the pvp team right now, my prioritize would be, in order, as follows: GENERAL: -Sandbox tuning to create a more competitive environment where weapons are all relatively equal in terms of balancing ease of use vs effectiveness and limit the "do everything right and still lose" situations created by the cheesey guns/abilities (IE lorentz, fusions, sniper flinch, and some others) -Full lobby balancing rework with a focus on individual matchups rather than manipulating team win% -Implement stronger outlier protection, and prioritize matching fireteams against fireteams -Reintroduce and rotate in OBJ specific game modes (zone control / Rift) as the PRIMARY playlist, to less emphasize the importance of slaying ability (lets be real, control is clash with modifiers) TRIALS: -Freelance as a permanent fixture in trials, -Flawless pool removed entirely -Rotating in OBJ weekends like circle cap trials, Does that make me crazy? I dont think so.
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No they don’t. Bungie still hasn’t figured out that these guys work for them…and not the other way around. But too many at Bungie seem Star-struck by these guys, rather than treating them as the cheap viral advertising for the game that they are. Most of these guys need Destiny more than Bungie needs them.
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They are not where the broken comes from. So its important that they appear to be catered to so that lower skilled players can receive the illusion that competition is taking place. For the most part this game has never been about identifying who the best players are. It can't really be that with the player population that it has to cater to and some of the other limitations that its had. So giving some people the benis and making them look special is an important part of the whole thing. Regardless of the changes that appear to take place as a result of what streamers say. Not that much really changes as a result of what streamers say. But it is very important to make it look like it does.
