[quote]Destiny is by far one of the easiest and most unskilled games via a FPS shooter due to how cheesy and unbalanced it has become.[/quote] That's the main problem. It doesn't have to be this way. And the reasons why it is just aren't good enough at this point. There's no good reason.

Exactly. It seems like Bungie has been believing in the concept that Destiny can’t ever be balanced and that a META must exist which to me is a more than partially incorrect and bias. It is saddening that I miss the double primary system and I miss when ARs were one of the strongest weapons in the game in terms of PVP. Now it is the same song and dance that has been on repeat for years. I am still in awe on why they buffed the Hand Cannons range back. Bungie missed a major opportunity to make Scout Rifles strong again and put Hand Cannons in a place they truthfully belong. They gave into the toxic tryhard community quick after ARs were dominant and Hand Cannons were good but not great. It is crazy how Pulse Rifles have continue to never really be a plague to the game since the days of the Clever Dragon. You know the balance is off when you use all the other Hand Cannons within the 140 archetype but the only ones that feel good are D1 versions and some raid ones. It is even worse when you are using a 180 HC and somehow a 140 can be spammed almost in the same rate of fire somehow. Bungie needs to really dig deep on the balancing act and understand what is the real problem of PVP because these bandaid fixes are not the solution.

If they replaced scout rifles with hand cannons it would probably just end up a worse scenario because scouts have high stability. Plus with the hand cannons its kind of a hat tilt to the top tier who, because of the way the game works, will most often get to shoot them like yosemite sam and still hit everything without having to worry about recoil. I don't think the game necessarily needs the double primary system back, although I would definitely take that over this. Its more that the more it goes in a certain direction basically no matter what, the more it says about what they think. Because at this point with some of it, its just all about what someone thinks and obviously not what's going on during the matches.

I don’t think it would be worse honestly because it isn’t a double primary system anymore. Hand Cannons are playing all the ranges of the weapons without any real drawbacks due to perks and ease of use. Yea I agree with your second paragraph. It is sad that they can have all the data in the world about this game yet not understand what needs to be done to make this game more balanced and fun.

Sometimes I really do wonder if there's just supposed to be no limit whatsoever. One thing I will say is I've neeeeeeever known Bungie to fix something that's broken by ignoring it and adding more of what people like instead. They've never done stuff like that...

I wouldn’t know but I know Hand Cannons definitely need to be dialed back so Scouts can be useable more often than they are now. If players can find ways to move in close with a shotgun or sidearms then players can do the same with Hand Cannons in close to mid range engagements. The whole point of range on weapons is showcase how far it be used and not how far you can take it and Bungie needs to address that realization. Each archetype of weapon should each have a range that are cap at no matter what perks they have applied. For example: Sidearms: 7-15meters SMGs: 15-25m Hand Cannons: 20-30m ARs/Pulse Rifles: 30m Scout Rifles/Bows: 30-45m Snipers/Linear Fusions: 30+ Fusions: 15-25m Shotguns: 0-7m Perks and mods can help exceed these ranges but not by much ie 1-3 meters max. The fact that certain weapons are automatically strong due to default stats alone plus mediocre to better perk selection makes the whole META concept vastly more identifiable as a problem for the game currently and less about how each weapon type operates. “Broken” to Bungie can be seen differently in their eyes when it comes to the game and the same can be said about the player base as a whole.

Those ranges all seem pretty fair if you'd just put fusions down to 5 and shotguns down to 2. I do think they can and most likely will (or at least should) come up with ways to buff weapons sporadically during matches. Just with something like main ingredient. What is that? And then on top of the way that thing works people are all staring off into the sky wondering why matchmaking has such a hard time matching people. And that's only one of the equalizer weapons in the game. All these equalizer weapons almost ensure that matchmaking is just going to be making stuff up.

You don’t want them with poor ranges because then it will simply become a more team shooting scene than it already is now. You want players to still feel strong but not too strong to the point players use specials more often than having primary engagements. Honestly, the best way to handle the whole special weapons feeling overpowered is by making the flinch more showcased from primaries. Snipers currently are one of the most underused weapons in the sandbox besides breech grenade launchers due to the flinch or ease of use being worsened. This is why I believe flinch and targeting mods need to either be removed from the game or have them only apply to primary weapons. Yea the matchmaking is beyond poor right now and I can almost guarantee the solution is simple rather than complicated.

No no, I want them with poor ranges. And that is totally a selfish personal preference that no one else should listen to or consider. I literally wouldn't mind if shotguns were like halo where you basically had to be pressed up against someone to kill them. And fusions could disappear permanently. But I know that's not going to happen. And really if special ammo was just truly made into a special occurrence somehow there wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem. I felt like prior to this season PvP was headed in the right direction basically like a freight train. Now this season for some reason it just feels like its back to the way it was before stasis came out in terms of the ohk prevalence. With snipers, they are just one of those things that there's not a whole lot of in between in terms of whether or not they're going to be something where using them will consistently put a player at the top of the lobby. They're kind of just support weapons in 6v6 because of how fast everything moves and if they go above that role it turns into too much of a long range shotgun scenario. I don't think you can just wholesale remove flinch and targeting because that's a system that's really complicated in terms of what what mod does to this or that gun. It would probably create more problems that would have to be solved than fix them. With some weapons the mods are the difference between them working and not working really at all. So if that were to happen other things would probably need to be adjusted. And flinch, no one is going to like anything that involves increased flinch in this game with how fast paced it is. Adding that is something that probably wouldn't go over really well.

I see your views on the matter but they aren’t going to nerf those special weapons to the ranges you desire. It would kill the incentive to use special weapons and force a double primary system designed around more teamshooting and less solo engagements. We didn’t have flinch or targeting mods in D1 and I can see why you think needed them is a must but the problem is that special weapons can roll with flinch mods which negates the real need to engage in a gunfight with a primary when you can just shrug off the flinch. Thats why I am more open to them just simply removing the ones that adhere to special weapons in terms of flinching. Flinch and ammo keep special weapons for being primaries and Bungie needs to really lean into that concept to truly address them.

Oh I know they aren't going to nerf them down that low because then there would have been no reason to have made the weapons in the first place. That doesn't mean their prevalence all over the place should just be automatically justified. I think I totally misunderstood what you were saying about flinch. If you were saying special weapons should be able to be flinched more then I definitely agree. And that's weird because I was just thinking that the other day for some reason. Sometimes I do try to think of realistic ways to deal with the special spam and increased flinch definitely seems like a good option. There's just not enough downsides to using them and they are causing problems whether people think they should be prevalent or not. I just want it to where the things that are causing the problems are really looked at as the things that are causing the problems and in a more objective way. Not the whole "we have reimagined this to be the problem and so now it is the problem" way. The ohk is just too much and it needs to come down. I don't particularly care how that happens it would just be nice if it could be treated like it needs to happen.

I agree with everything you said. I don’t think you misunderstood what I said. I mentioned all weapons but after reading over it again, specials weapons are mostly the issue when to come to not engaging the flinch factor. I understand what you mean. We as the community can give our opinions all day but it is up to Bungie and use that information as constructive criticism and apply it as part of their theory behind how they want to balance the game. There is only so much feedback players can provide and data Bungie can recover to identify the cause of many of the issues plaguing this game and it isn’t a good look when we are 7+ years deep in the game still engaging the same issues we dealt with in D1.

They've definitely made progress in a lot of areas. I wouldn't say the issues are the exact same as whatever they were in D1. I only played D1 for like the last 8 or so months that it was out, so I wouldn't know though. One thing I do remember about that game was that people complained the entire time it was out just like they do now. Now that I think of it, Halo was the same way. So its got to be hard to figure out who to cater to with the 10-20% of the time that they aren't doing what they want to.