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Editado por Folk:
5/21/2014 3:22:36 AM
15
It's pointless... Anybody will tell you what you want to hear, when you're torturing them.
Deprivation, isolation, psychological torture along with drugs. Would probably work the best for breaking someone's story.
English
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That's over a longer period of time. Torture a shorter period. Depends on the rush
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What you described is exactly right. I am HUMINT collector qualified in the Army. There are certain things we can do to "compel" people to talk, but torture will never get you what you want. As people will say and do anything to make the pain stop, including lying to you and saying what you want to hear.
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Editado por HurtfulTurkey: 6/11/2014 8:43:02 PMI guess you're unaware that bin Laden and somewhere around three generations of Al Qaeda leadership were killed because of information gained from torture. The argument that it's ineffective is pretty much defunct.
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I would suggest you look into the actual methods used. What you deem as "torture" are in fact just standard and advanced exploitation/interrogation techniques. Define torture. Advanced interrogation methods have been categories as "torture" by the general public. These include sensory deprivation/sensory overload, sleep deprivation, repeated hypothermic exposure, stress positioning, and until recent time even water boarding. Only with public exposure has water boarding been deemed not suitable and classified as "torture" and "illegal". The other methods at times have been deemed "torture" but have been accepted under Geneva convention as it in fact does not cause any actual injury to the exploit. You read about the stuff. US Army MOS 35M and Australian HUMINT Exploitation Operators conduct these operations. Sorry to break it to you but I think I know my job better than you.
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Waterboarding is extensively considered a form of torture...obviously it doesn't need to inflict physical injury to be classified as such. A good documentary you should check out is 'Manhunt'. Arguing about waterboarding not being torture is just being a pedant.
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Then there is sensory overload. Exploit is in a interview room unable to leave the table. The room is set up on a fashion so that there is no light. The exploit is then blasted with blinding light and deafening music for a period of time and then it turns off... Only to then turn on again a few seconds later... This is repeated for as long as is required. The lights are so bright that even if you close your eyes the light is still registered by you eyes through the eye lids. This too is deemed as a suitable method and not considered torture.
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Can you stop pretending you're the only one in the room that knows what we're talking about and get back to the discussion?
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Can you please stop being ignorant and forgetting that I am a qualified HUMINT collector? Research what exactly that is before you continue this discussion.
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It tricks the body into thinking it's drowning. Yet you are still allowed to hose an exploit down with cold water and leave then in a interview room that is set up and as cold as an industrial freezer? This causes the exploit to go into hypothermia, you then remove them and ask then if they will cooperate. If they will not you wait for them to stabilise and then subject them to it again and again. Once again no physical harm is caused, but the exploit cannot fight their own body... Methods such as that are deemed as non-torture and are one of the advanced techniques used.
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Congratulations? Are you still trying to argue that these techniques are ineffective?
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They are effective. But they are not torture. These are accepted methods under the Geneva convention that HUMINT Exploitation Operators use on their exploits. If they were classified as torture they would not be accept by the Geneva convention and would not be allowed to be practiced. As pointed out only in the recent year the general public have had outrage over some of these methods and attempted to deem them as torture. My point is you need to find out what really is classified as torture before claiming torture is effective. Did you not read where I said I am a HUMINT collector? These are tools of my job.
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[quote]They are effective.[/quote] Okay, thanks for playing. [quote]Did you not read where I said I am a HUMINT collector?[/quote][quote]I am a qualified HUMINT collector?[/quote][quote]I know my job better than you[/quote][quote]US Army MOS 35M[/quote][quote]I am HUMINT collector qualified in the Army.[/quote] Oh, did you mention that you were in the Army?
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yes they are effective. No those methods are not torture. Torture is illegal under Geneva convention, and being signatories we cannot use torture as a method of exploitation. A HUMINT collector is a military job. US Army it is MOS 35M - I mentioned that in previous responses on here. In Australian we are referred to as HUMINT Operators - this particular line of work in which you are referring to here involves and Exploitation Operator (there is Source and Exploitation). I still stand by my original statement torture is not as effective as believed.... That said some of the methods I described are NOT considered torture, and ARE effective. Take that as you will.
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Editado por HurtfulTurkey: 6/11/2014 10:09:38 PM[quote]I mentioned that in previous responses on here.[/quote] I know, I was mocking how frequently you felt the need to state it. [quote]yes they are effective.[/quote] Again, thanks for playing. [quote]No those methods are not torture.[/quote]Waterboarding definitely is torture under the Geneva Convention. It's also really effective. Not going to go any further than that because frankly this conversation is bordering on infringing opsec and I'm not really a fan of how much detail you're putting into the descriptions just to show off.
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It doesn't infringe upon OPSEC or even PERSEC at all. This information is Open Source, meaning it can be found freely.
