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2/29/2020 8:51:48 PM
68
Then you should know that no loot game lets you get one piece of loot and then progress it through the game forever.
You eventually have to leave it behind.
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"Oh Luke. That feels soooooo good."
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Because those other games usually ACTUALLY HAVE A PROGRESSION SYSTEM THAT BUNGIE LACKS THE CREATIVITY TO IMPLEMENT?!?!??!
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Editado por TheArtist: 3/1/2020 2:07:33 PMHalf point. Part of the problem is that Bungie is trying to unwind a broken, gear-based progression system that was put into the game to make it more appealing to shooter gamers. But it has been an endless source of headaches and problems. Power creep caused by weapons remaining in the game forever is one of those problems that they are trying to fix now that they are trying to make the game play more like an rpg. You don’t get to criticize them for both having the problem, and then doing what is necessary to fix the problem. Pick one or the other.
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[quote]Half point. Part of the problem is that Bungie is trying to unwind a broken, gear-based progression system that was put into the game to make it more appealing to shooter gamers. But it has been an endless source of headaches and problems. Power creep caused by weapons remaining in the game forever is one of those problems that they are trying to fix now that they are trying to make the game play more like an rpg. You don’t get to criticize them for both having the problem, and then doing what is necessary to fix the problem. Pick one or the other.[/quote] Lol! I like this post. However, solutions upon solutions upon solutions were offered to Bungie as feedback - a LOT of which use Bungie's own ideas (from D1), such as rotating faction vendor stock (wow - so much stated there that is missing, first- faction relevance, second- factions being vendors, third- rotating weekly stock). So their new attempt to fix the problems they created isn't really something that can go without criticism, because they authored their own problems to begin with. If we were still in vanilla D2, I'd agree with you. But this is Year 3, and they are still having problems? How incompetent are they that a studio such as Bungie can't build off of a previous game, and make the sequel into a better one, not omitting the lessons learned?
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Editado por xbroggiex: 3/1/2020 2:13:22 PMYeah and that "fix" is a band aid that disrespects player time... "more of an rpg" my -blam!-ing ass it is! All they are doing is arbitrarily capping your gear so they can just replace it with just a reskin to keep you grinding for the same guns over and over again. If this was more like an RPG these weapons would be getting better not staying at the same point with only an arbitrary number changing. How about instead of Bungie putting in a half-arsed change that no-one was really asking for specifically they shove the change up their arse then get off their arse and actually do some creative game design?
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[quote]Yeah and that "fix" is a band aid that disrespects player time... "more of an rpg" my -blam!-ing ass it is! All they are doing is arbitrarily capping your gear so they can just replace it with just a reskin to keep you grinding for the same guns over and over again. If this was more like an RPG these weapons would be getting better not staying at the same point with only an arbitrary number changing. How about instead of Bungie putting in a half-arsed change that no-one was really asking for specifically they shove the change up their arse then get off their arse and actually do some creative game design?[/quote] I believe their solution may not even include reskins... I'm going to introduce a power level system with round numbers just to make this point (a more accurate version would be D1 HoW style). Season 1 max level 100 Season 2 max level 200 Season 3 max level 300, etc... Now let's say you get Breakneck in season 1, and it's capped at 400 (meaning you can use it for season 1 + 3 more seasons). Then what if you are playing in season 3, and you get a new Breakneck, it may be capped at 600 (current season + 3 seasons). So not even a reskin, just a timer. Would you put it past them to do it this way?
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Not at all, at this point. Its clear the goal is as little effort as possible while all the money goes to that other IP
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Then you would basically regrinding for the exact same items so I will respectfully disagree.
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we eventually do leave weapons behind when we can replace them with better weapons but better weapons are few and far between these days
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Editado por JasperGTR: 3/5/2020 4:34:41 PM[quote]we eventually do leave weapons behind when we can replace them with better weapons but better weapons are few and far between these days[/quote] Exactly. If new guns were better, most players would WANT to get them. If they aren't, then players stick to their preferred loadout(s). So then Bungie forces everyone to seek new loadouts, so not really a method to build anything, but rather an artificial timed progression.
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Not even better necessarily, but different/interesting
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yup, and that's because you can't make better weapons without thinking they could lead to problems in future end game content. You either have a ceiling for how good a weapon is for as long as the game is out... or you have a ceiling for how good a weapon is as long as it can be used in end game. You gotta pick one or the other.
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[quote]yup, and that's because you can't make better weapons without thinking they could lead to problems in future end game content. You either have a ceiling for how good a weapon is for as long as the game is out... or you have a ceiling for how good a weapon is as long as it can be used in end game. You gotta pick one or the other.[/quote] So a studio can't plan ahead and not create their own problems? I believe 100% that a game developer is capable of introducing an item without unintended negative effects... ESPECIALLY if they play-test their own game. Now I'm not suggesting they can come up with every possible combination of events, but they know their own math of effects - they created this universe from nothing, they have complete control over this universe, and thus can create any item to exist within it, within their vision. I am suggesting that they lack vision they once had.
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Its pretty clear they dont play test anything these days. They're just winging it.
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A game developer? Sure. But the "Chucky cheese" of first person shooters? Nah man.
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[quote]A game developer? Sure. But the "Chucky cheese" of first person shooters? Nah man.[/quote] Yeah, I was using that term half-way sarcastically.
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[quote] So a studio can't plan ahead and not create their own problems? I believe 100% that a game developer is capable of introducing an item without unintended negative effects... ESPECIALLY if they play-test their own game. Now I'm not suggesting they can come up with every possible combination of events, but they know their own math of effects - they created this universe from nothing, they have complete control over this universe, and thus can create any item to exist within it, within their vision. I am suggesting that they lack vision they once had.[/quote] They did, and you guys whined about it in D1, so they changed it for TTK to allow infusion. Turns out when they brought that system back in D2 when you have 2+ years you realize there are gigantic problems with that philosophy. They did produce weapons with negative effects, which is every milk-warm weapon in the game. Why do you think D2 weapons are objectively weaker than D1 weapons? Especially D1 Y1 weapons?
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[quote]Turns out when they brought that system back in D2 when you have 2+ years you realize there are gigantic problems with that philosophy.[/quote] It doesn't take two years to realize it. It just taken Bungie that long to get over their stubborn denial, and finally admit DEFEAT. That the rules of good game design that apply to every other loot game, also apply to theirs. But agree 100% with everything else you said. [quote]Why do you think D2 weapons are objectively weaker than D1 weapons? Especially D1 Y1 weapons?[/quote] Some of them weren't around for that hard reboot. Others are just so obsessed and fixated on keeping their STUFF, that they can't see this. If Bungie hadn't FORCIBLY retired those weapons, half the -blam!-ing player base would still be playing them. The Y1D1 raid weapons and Trials weapns were so OP compared to everything else in the game. They also don't see the problem in the whole player base TURNING UP THEIR NOSE at the weapons released with HoWs to go FARM the Y1D1 raids....and level them up. Or people sitting in the Tower slamming upgrade mats to the Gunsmith so they could basically CRAFT their own god-rolls People LOST interest in the loot, because everything was just RAW MATERIAL to give to the Gunsmith in an effort to craft the weapon they wanted.
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I mean to be fair the only weapon people hard farmed for was Hopscotch in the Strike Playlist because it was rare and random roll alternative to the Trials Pulse (which was a 2-burst king), but yeah there were weapons in the end game the pushed people to go into the end game, regardless of how short of a time they were viable in that end game because you could use those items in all other content to break it. Plus, this time they are arguing for 9-15 months before the rotation, that's longer than D1 where we had what? 3-4 months?
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Oh, hell no. I sat through FAR too many runs of CE and VoG with squeakers and every Tom, Dick and Harry with a controller during House of Wolves as they farmed those raids for those weapons. Between perks and perk combinations you literally couldn't get anywhere else....and the game's only accessible elemental primaries at a time when elemental burns did 300% damage compared to kinetic weapons? Those weapons were the best PVE weapons in the game in a -blam!-ing RUNAWAY. Its why Bungie REBOOOTED the entire weapon system fo Year 2., and REMOVED elemental primaries from the game. IT WAS THE ONLY WAY TO GET THOSE THINGS OUT OF PEOPLE'S HANDS, AND GET THEM TO USE **ANYTHING** ELSE. I remember them clearly being such a set of Golden Handcuffs that I got SICK of using them. I got so sick of using Gjallarhorn and the CE scout rifle (the only arc elemental primary I had) that I CHEERED the day that I actually got to DISMANTLE the thing when it was no longer relevant. I'd have SET MY -blam!-ING CONTROLLER on fire if I'd have thought it would have sped up the process. I HATED being forced to use that weapon so much. They are talking 9-15 months because that is three months to either side of the YEAR that the Y1 raid weapons dogged the game and its meta. They know that the game can bend for a year to accomodate OP weapons, if they are then retired from the game.
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Excatly, which is why we might start seeing actual good raid loot again. D2 raid loot is a bloody joke. A few decent rewards, but good lord at least they should be as good as RoI raid weapons. -_-
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Editado por TheArtist: 3/5/2020 9:55:10 PM[quote]Excatly, which is why we might start seeing actual good raid loot again. D2 raid loot is a bloody joke. A few decent rewards, but good lord at least they should be as good as RoI raid weapons. -_[/quote] Agreed. Yet another thing that people are too busy clutching their PEARLS to realize. Aside from Pinnacles and the raid exotics...the loot in this game SUCKS as a vehicle to give power to the player. The only legendary raid weapon that I play with ANY regularity is Sacred Provenance.... ...and only do that so I don't have waste an infusion core on a Blast Furnace.
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I was actually okay with etheric light, once I understood why they did it. I did not ask for old items be left to obscurity. Nor did I ask to bring them back. The problem never should have existed. Either upgrading or infusion would have worked (obviously, as history as shown us), but the problems came in when they tried both methods, without thinking it through as a player.
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You own staida all you opinions are now irrelevant
