Named me at least one "gear progression game" where you forced to look like dumbass? And don't forget about weapon. Maybe 1-3 power level is not that big, but with current drop system you will always get powerful gear compared your CURRENT character power level. We checked that. So if you have, let's say, 555 power level with Edge Transit + Sniper Rifle from Dreaming City and Sniper Rifle from Zavala, and have 550 without it, you will get 551, 552, 553 powerful gear weapons, while your highest could be 557, 556 etc. Understood now? Or should I repeat this in every thread to every elitist idiot?

FALSE. The progression system checks your character's highest possible power based on any gear on that character, in that character's inventory, or in the vault, when determining loot Power Level. So you are already wrong there.

No it's not. The thing you described worked before Forsaken. But last month it's not. And the side part of it is a huge bug that could give you powerful gear that have less power level than your current armor/weapon. Think deeper. If game engine still checked your inventory (i never heard about gear in a vault counted) for power level it's never will give you gear with less power level that in your current slot (no matter you use it or not). Meanwhile, you could see a lot of feedback how people get 2-5 less power level powerful gear in slots where they have (use or not) better gear. If you put youe brain on for a second, you could figured it out. Game engine now check your CURRENT power level, not items you have. Sure you can't equip 300 power level gear and get 301 powerful engram, cause game already know that you are 50 level character and got solid power value for gear in collection tab. But believe me if you will ignore this 5-8 power levels on gear you will get underpower engrams again and again. Want to check my words? After next reset take all gear from collection, put it on and lost 20-25 power levels and do some milestones.=)

Nope. Just like you missed the part about items in the Vault counting toward Power Level determination, you also misinterpreted how Powerful Gear drops are calculated. It's not based on the SLOT, it's based on your MAX POWER LEVEL for that character.

Well, you could checked yourself, if you want. I already did and lost one powerful gear, so...

You just think you did because you can't comprehend how it works.

Yeah, sure. That's why I wrote above how it's currently works. You still in Y1, pal. And leveling system changed, and all this bugs with powerful gear proves it.

No. I'm not. Because you don't seem to understand what vertical progression is. What horizontal progression is...and how differently they operate in this game. In Diablo 3, ninety percent of your power is determined by your character level...and what skills you've unlocked from your class tree. You weapon and armor are basically STAT STICKS. As a Wizard, my character only plays differently based on whether I have a melee weapon equipped versus a ranged weapon....or a one-handed weapon vs a 2 handed. So having a "bad" drop of a weapon that I don't particularly like has little-to-no impact on how my character plays. In Destiny 2 (haven't done the math, so I'm speculating a bit) only about 60% or so of your power comes from your level and your skill tree. EVERYTHING else comes from gear. Vertical progression being determined by WHAT KIND of weapon you get to drop, and what power level it drops at. Horizontal progression in what category (rarity) the item drops as....and what perks are on it. Without the ability to infuse....getting a sidearm is basically a WASTED drop to a PVE player (some content creators have even called for them to be removed from the game). Having it drop at high power-level is of no progression value because every PVE enemy class but the lowliest trash mobs (and even some of them) all have fighting mechanics that make it a high-risk move to try to get within side arm range. Against many story and strike bosses....it can literally be a fatal event....and that is increasingly expanding. I made the mistake of getting too close to a mini-boss last night in the Dark Monastery mission (to use a shotgun)...and its "knock back" mechanic literally nocked me off the Cliffside to my death. Which is why, as a PVE player, I don't even bother to equip them. The risk simply isn't worth the reward. But in the current system....if I hadn't been sitting on a ton of cores....I'd have been forced to either engage in an ineffective play style because of the CLUSTERING that always happens around gear drops in this game (which infusion prevents from becoming a progression wall)...... ......or accept being probably 20 power levels lower than I currently am because those are the only weapons that have dropped that allow me to play end-game level PVE at the range that the games DESIGN will permit. The bottomline is that Bungie is making changes to this system that show that they either do not understand the kind of game this is.....or they don't belive the "rules" that apply to progression in a loot-based game apply to them and this game. Eitehr one of those attitudes is a game-breaking problem.

...that wasn't even a reply to you... so...

so you have not had a time when 2 primary snipers are your best level primary, a shotgun in the secondary spot and a grenade launcher in the heavy slot? You are typing nonsense unless you are awash with master cores which is essentially the only and very easily solved issue. ie take mw cores out of infusion. Period.

Sure I have. Does that mean I need to use them so I can gain that 1-3 Power? No. That number is completely unnoticeable in gameplay. Common sense is hard, huh?

[quote]Common sense is hard, huh?[/quote] Apparently it is for you. Because your characterization of what's going on...and what players are being confronted with is ridiculous. My main character is (IIRC) 357 power in his best gear. I have not had a powerful gear drop of a Pulse rifle since the low 340s. The last AR that was a powerful drop for me was in the high 340s. I got TWO grenades launchers (both Edge Transits) as powerful drops last night. I third powerful drop was (once again) a sidearm. The issue here is that---as is often the case at Bungie----you have people making design "decisions" and setting "design goals" that are SO out of touch with how their game actually plays in the wild...that its almost laughable at times. .....and its why so often these "changes" fail in predictable ways.

Missing the point. Diablo 3 is the gold-standard (and arguably---in the form of the Diablo franchise----the original) loot-based RPG. In D3, Vertical progression and Horizontal progression are handled SEPERATELY. Vertical progression by unlocking powers on your character skill tree. Horizontal progression via gear level and gear perks. With about 90% of your player power coming form vertical progression...and about 10% being that last bit of efficiency from getting the best gear, and optimizing/customizing a load out. Which is why a level 70 Wizard in crap gear is still powerful. But in Destiny, the character skill tree is....ahem....rudimentary. So after about level 20 in this game, it cease to be relevant to progression. After that ALL power-progression comes through acquisition of gear. Vertical progression coming from jumps in power-level...and the KIND of weapon/gear being dropped. Horizontal progression from the perks ON that gear itself. Which is why in Destiny either equipping low-level gear.....or being forced to play with the wrong KIND of gear....is a MAJOR progression barrier. Take your level 50 character....equip them in power-level 350 gear...and see how far you get in the Level 500 power strike playlist. YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DAMAGE ANYTHING!!. Being forced to play with the wrong KIND of gear----two sidearms----for example is almost as big of a problem. Would you REALLY want to go into a raid with someone who may be 370 power.....but they only way they can get anywhere near that power level is with 2 sidearms and a grenade launcher? Like I said. I've gotten close to 30 Edge Transits, and about a dozen of EVERY kind of sidearm in the game as loot drops. The only reason why this RNG TRAVESTY is still funny is because I've had the resources to infuse these weapons into weapons that are actually of practical PVE value. But if I were a new player or a returning player, I would NOT have had those resoursece...and would have been essentially either FORCED to use them.....or accept being held back at 20 power levels below my optimum because one of the key resources in the game is essentially UNOBTAINABLE in the amounts its being required for in mid-game progression. That...is poor system design. Period.

D3 the original loot based RPG? LOL

I swear, we must be playing two entirely different versions of Diablo 3. The one I played, most of your power came from set bonuses, nothing else.

Set bonuses are powerful but not that powerful. They represent end-game min-maxing. Your basic vertical progression comes from raising your character level and unlocking your class abilities. Bungie blurs the line between the two because of how much of our power comes from gear.

I gotta call bull shit here. You get basically all the way to 70 and unlock all your abilities just by playing through the story (which is not a great story). Anyone who plays D3 will tell you that getting to 70 and completing the story is basically the tutorial for the game and none of your power comes actually comes from that. Once you hit level cap and have you abilities unlocked, it's all about grinding for the right set pieces to fit your play style and be able to fight bigger bosses. You know what game is almost identical to that? DESTINY! I'm sorry, you chose a poor analogy to prove your point on this one.

[quote]Anyone who plays D3 will tell you that getting to 70 and completing the story is basically the tutorial for the game and none of your power comes actually comes from that. [/quote] Anyone who tells you that has been playng the game, and not really paying attention to what's going on. The levelling process is not a tutorial, its the MID-GAME. Its your main vertical progression. Once you unlock all the powers on your tree, your vertical progression largely comes to a halt. YES, the numbers on your gear will go up on your gear....but the difficulty of the content also AUTO-SCALES to those numbers. So you essentially are on a progression TREADMILL after that. Which basically allows the player the satisfaction of running on a hamster wheel that creates the appreance of endless progression, but in reality you hit a glass ceiling of power that the game doesn't allow you to move past. Which is why I continue to play Destiny, and I've largely lost interest in Diablo 3. For all its other problems, Destiny preserves the feeling of making actual power-gains relative to the content. (Which is why they are trying to stretch this out for as long as possible). Where as Diablo 3, gives you the satisfaction of numbers endlessly go up....but those stop translating into actual power gains fairly quickly.

Power does not auto-scale. Again, I fully believe you have never played the game. You choose which torment to play on. You choose which Grift level to go into. If you wanna not be able to be killed by anything and god through stuff you can choose to do that in D3. If you're saying that vertical progression is simply getting max level and unlocking your abilities, well then you do EXACTLY the same thing in Destiny by getting to 50 and leveling your subclass. If you say that in D3 anything beyond that is end game, that's EXACTLY what you do in Destiny. Even CHOOSING to play in more or less powerful areas in D3 is EXACTLY the same in Destiny - there just happens to be a little more variety of levels in Destiny. You're calling D3 a gold standard but your not comparing the same elements of the game to Destiny. By your definition of horizontal or vertical progression, Destiny and D3 are basically the same game. And therefore, gaining light level (equivalent to acquiring gear for power in D3) is an END GAME activity. You call this horizontal progression in D3 but vertical progression in Destiny?? That doesn't make any sense.