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1/13/2018 1:58:38 PM
25
"That wasn't real Communism"
As most of you have been here for quite some time, you've probably all heard the argument [i]that wasn't real Communism [/i] by now. It's often used by Communists when someone else criticises Communism as a whole. I'm here to tell you that they're right. Before you downvote me to oblivion and back, hear me out. [b]I'm not here to defend Communism. [/b]
The original Communist idea, as stated by Marx, has never been accomplished. Neither did Marxist-Leninism. These are the only 'real' forms of Communism (according to Communists). Now, when I say they've never been executed probably, that doesn't mean I think it's a successful political and economic system. Believe me, it's not.
So why do Communists say everytime that [i][insert random Communist country here][/i]? Because all these countries were Stalinist, not Communist. What's Stalinism, you might ask? Simply put: it's Fascism disguised as Communism. North Korea, Cuba, USSR/CCCP, they are/were all Stalinist.
Stalinism is the further evolution of fase 2 of Marx's road to total Communism: a dictatorship of the people until the proletariat can rule itself (this is fase 3). Obviously, this third fase is not realistic and absolutely not possible, but only if the third fase has been reached, you can legitimately say that country is Communist.
Never has a rising Communist country reached the third fase, and it won't ever happen. The third fase is impossible to realise, thus making Communism irrelevant. [b]That means the argument [i]that wasn't real Communism[/i] is quite stupid as well, because there will never be [i]real Communism[/i]. [/b]
[b]TL;DR:[/b] [i]that wasn't real Communism[/i] is a correct, but stupid and irrelevant argument
[spoiler]I'm Marxist, by the way. Fight me [/spoiler]
English
#Offtopic
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5 RespuestasRead title. Down voted, twas my duty.
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6 RespuestasI’m curious to see what would happen if communism were enacted in a country with enough money to actually support communism.
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Name doesn’t check out
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23 RespuestasDisagree. As a child of the Cold War, we used to make the distinction between communism "with small c" and Communism with "a big C". While---after 30 years---I've forgotten which is which, the point is that there was a difference between Communism in the ABSTRACT....and Communism in the real world. Communism in the ABSTRACT...has never been achieved....and it never will until you EVOLVE a better class of human being. One that doesn't act like a (as a colleague of mine like to say) "a scared little monkey". Communism in the abstract is a BENEVOLENT dictatorship by the working class over society, where they control all economic activity. A dictatorship where everyone works in an ALTRUISTIC way for the benefit of the Society as whole. The problem is that NO REAL group of human beings are that benevolent, and that altruistic OUTSIDE OF A MONASTERY OR CONVENT. Therefore Communism is an UNWORKABLE political and economic ideology UNLESS you are dealing with a society of saints. So what happens when you try to apply in the REAL WORLD, is that you get some variant of Stalinism. Which is just your garden-variety totalitarian state...where the state controls all the wealth and all the economic activity. So instead of a society dominated by the "economic and intellectual elite" (the bourgeois), you get a society dominated by an unelected, unaccountable bureaucracy. (Oligarchy). There is also no altruism from the people. People aren't rewarded for the efforts, and aren't willing to work hard for altruistic motives. So everyone does the bare MINIMUM that they can get away with doing....so the economic engine of the country grind to a halt. So, other than the bureaucratic elite, pretty much everyone else lives in some form of poverty. Which is why North Korea (every few years) has to threaten to start WWIII in order to blackmail the rest of the world into giving it the food it needs to keep its people from starving.
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25 RespuestasVery funny, [i]now off to gulag with you capitalist swine.[/i]
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8 RespuestasHitler kills millions: "FASCISM IS EVIL!!!" Stalin, Mao, and other commie bastard leaders kill millions more: "They just weren't real communism!"
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1 RespuestaThing about revolutions, the people are all too happy to put another person in power because "this time they'll do good", and so leads another oppressive state.
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41 RespuestasWhen you travel left you encounter communists and Nazls. Take the next right, capitalism and democracy is our prosperity for the future.
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1 Respuesta"From the proletarians nothing is to be feared. Left to themselves, they will continue from generation to generation and from century to century, working, breeding, and dying, not only without any impulse to rebel, but without the power of grasping that the world could be other than it is.”
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1 RespuestaEditado por Commander Tempu: 1/15/2018 6:56:08 AMIn Mother Russia they use Anti-Tank Dogs. Check it out!
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3 RespuestasLearning in my offtopic?!?!??!
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4 Respuestas“Think again sunshine”
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1 RespuestaYeah right dude. Good one but communism sucks.
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1 Respuesta(☭ ͜ʖ ☭)
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7 Respuestas(☭ ͜ʖ ☭)
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6 RespuestasHow can you be a Marxist but claim that communism ‘isn’t going to happen’? The whole point of the communist manifesto is that Marx is theorising the future and saying that it ‘will’ happen sooner or later.
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9 RespuestasStalinism lacks the extreme Nationalism required to be fascism.
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1 RespuestaIt's all very well and good but people -blam!- it up. I think Orwell nailed it.
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1 Respuesta
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4 Respuestas[quote]As most of you have been here for quite some time, you've probably all heard the argument [i]that wasn't real Communism [/i] by now. It's often used by Communists when someone else criticises Communism as a whole. I'm here to tell you that they're right. Before you downvote me to oblivion and back, hear me out. [b]I'm not here to defend Communism. [/b] The original Communist idea, as stated by Marx, has never been accomplished. Neither did Marxist-Leninism. These are the only 'real' forms of Communism (according to Communists). Now, when I say they've never been executed probably, that doesn't mean I think it's a successful political and economic system. Believe me, it's not. So why do Communists say everytime that [i][insert random Communist country here][/i]? Because all these countries were Stalinist, not Communist. What's Stalinism, you might ask? Simply put: it's Fascism disguised as Communism. North Korea, Cuba, USSR/CCCP, they are/were all Stalinist. Stalinism is the further evolution of fase 2 of Marx's road to total Communism: a dictatorship of the people until the proletariat can rule itself (this is fase 3). Obviously, this third fase is not realistic and absolutely not possible, but only if the third fase has been reached, you can legitimately say that country is Communist. Never has a rising Communist country reached the third fase, and it won't ever happen. The third fase is impossible to realise, thus making Communism irrelevant. [b]That means the argument [i]that wasn't real Communism[/i] is quite stupid as well, because there will never be [i]real Communism[/i]. [/b] [b]TL;DR:[/b] [i]that wasn't real Communism[/i] is a correct, but stupid and irrelevant argument [spoiler]I'm Marxist, by the way. Fight me [/spoiler][/quote] Love economic doctrines that can't produce economic calculation.
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3 RespuestasMarxist-Leninism is just the way Lenin was planning on reverting to communism. Have the state nationalize everything, then hand it over to the workers/peasants and abolish the state. He and basically every other Socialist realized that communism would require mass brainwashing on a world wide scale, which is currently happening today. Russia was only selected as the testing ground in 1917 because it was the largest Christian state in the world, and religion needed to be abolished for communism to happen. The "Russian" revolution was not even by Russians, it was implemented by Jews such as Lenin and Trotsky and financed by Jews such as Jacob Schiff. Marx didn't philosophise Communism/Marxism, he simply put it into writing. It is derived directly from the Jewish Talmud.
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4 Respuestasand soooo........... debaters have known this for a while
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8 Respuestas>Karl Marx >I'm a Marxist btw 🤔 No, I don't see any resemblance whatsoever. And yes, communism has been tried. But human nature has proven time and time again to be selfish. Its incredibly arrogant to say it's never been tried, as if you'd do a better job since you apparently are the single rule of authority on right and wrong and even if you were, I guarantee there would be someone standing right behind you waiting to shoot you in the back the first second they got. That's what happened to Lenin and all the old guard from the Soviet revolution. Stalin rounded them all up and had them shot. I really hope the communists win here just once so they kill each other off in the power struggle and we can all go back to the way things were.
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2 RespuestasThis was good bait, thanks mate, I rate eight out of eight.
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10 RespuestasUhm, ok. [spoiler]I read the whole thing, do I get a cookie?[/spoiler]
