Crucible should be balanced around the best players. And SBMM should be non-existent as it rewards you being bad.

No, it should be balanced around the majority, which is usually the average players. I had no problem with sbmm, it doesn't reward people for being bad. It enables people to actually have a real chance to win and enjoy the game while getting better. The better you play, the better your competitors that you are matched with are. It's literally designed to help you face tougher foes the better you get. This is why I laugh when people make the argument that sbmm doesn't make you play better. When implemented correctly, it is probably the best way to get good at the game. You get equal competition and don't get matched with people you can't handle yet. Sure getting Pubstomped might eventually lead to you getting better, but it's a slow, painful journey and many people wouldn't keep playing long enough to actually get better. No one likes to be utterly destroyed with no real chance of victory. That's boring and demoralizing. I'll take a loss, but I have to feel like I actually had a chance to win, if not why the hell would anyone play? Lol who would stick around and play a game they know they can't win?! Nobody would, and game devs recognize this, hence sbmm and other tools like it. Not having sbmm solely rewards the good players and helps them stay at the top. There is no immediate, real, benefit for anyone but the "elite" players. It's always easier to stomp people of a lower skill than to actually play people that can beat you. Which is why the main reasoning behind getting rid of sbmm that I saw was "matches are too sweaty, I don't want to have to try every match". Aka "I don't want to always play people that give me a challenge." People don't want to have to try every match in a competitive shooter, but still want rewards. Lol gotta love the destiny community.

SBMM sucks. It makes you lose 50% of your games. It rewards you for being bad. Why do i need easier opponents or harder opponents than someone who is better than me/who is worse than me? Here are a few reasons why SBMM doesn't work: 1. Teams are never balanced. When i play skirmish, i usually score 2500-3000 score And i still sometimes LOSE. It sucks that your teammates are shit, yet it should be a balanced game. 2. The player pool is so small right now, i need to wait 5mins to find a skirmish game, and it's 4 times out of ten it's usually not a full lobby or i join up late. Not to say i get laggy opponents because it can't find players of my skill level. I hope they will atleast remove SBMM when there is no new content in the game, because at those times the game won't attract many new players. 3. This isn't about SBMM, but why in a 6v6 gamemode, there are two fireteams of three, and they bot go to the SAME team. It's unfair. And Bungie should also think about matching fireteams of 6 agaisnt each other, no matter who much better the other team is.

[quote]SBMM sucks. It makes you lose 50% of your games. It rewards you for being bad. Why do i need easier opponents or harder opponents than someone who is better than me/who is worse than me?[/quote] Lol what? How does sbmm make you lose 50% of your games? Please explain how that's happening. Sbmm is giving you opponents that are at or close to your skill. You want this because you'd be getting Pubstomped more often otherwise. You may like playing people that you have no real chance of beating, and im sure they like playing you lol; but the majority of us like fair, fun competition where we actually stand a chance. The opponents of sbmm aren't saying give us easier competition, we are saying to give us fair competition. [quote]Here are a few reasons why SBMM doesn't work: 1. Teams are never balanced. When i play skirmish, i usually score 2500-3000 score And i still sometimes LOSE. It sucks that your teammates are shit, yet it should be a balanced game[/quote]. Wait what?! This isn't a sbmm issue. If anything sbmm would actually solve this problem if implemented correctly. You would have more teammates at your skill level, thus balance would increase. Getting rid of sbmm would only increase this problem. I'm not sure you understand what sbmm is. You are literally saying the opposite of what sbmm does lol. Even still though, You will have a few shit teammates whether sbmm exists or not. Sbmm only pairs you with people of similar skill to you. It doesn't guarantee that those people will play good and at their skill every single match. I know plenty of people in halo as an example that have 2.0+ k/d but will have bad games from time to time for whatever reason. Sbmm has no control over this. [quote]2. The player pool is so small right now, i need to wait 5mins to find a skirmish game, and it's 4 times out of ten it's usually not a full lobby or i join up late. Not to say i get laggy opponents because it can't find players of my skill level. I hope they will atleast remove SBMM when there is no new content in the game, because at those times the game won't attract many new players. .[/quote] Once again this is not a sbmm issue, this is a small playerbase issue. Longer wait times are what happen when there are not enough players to match you with. This would happen even if sbmm didn't exist. You are saying things and associating things with sbmm that simply have nothing to do with sbmm. I've seen these same wrong statements in these forums before and it just shows a lack of understanding of what sbmm is and what it does.

And why do you give a -blam!-? You have played like 300 crucible games, and i have almost 3000, how do you think you know the matchmakihg systems better?

Whether it's 300 or 3000 games sbmm works the same way. How many games you've played has nothing to do with how matchmaking and sbmm works, which is the topic of our little debate here. Nice attempt at Stat-shaming though. I like how you answered none of my questions nor backed up any of the ludicrous things you've said lol. Why so hostile? Can you not handle an opinion that's different from yours? I ask again. How does sbmm make you lose 50% of your matches? You said that sbmm is to blame for th e imbalance skill-wise in matchmaking which has led to you getting matched with shit teammates, so I am asking for you Explain to me how getting rid of sbmm would somehow remedy this imbalance of skill among your teammates. Sbmm is supposed to increase the balance skill-wise and ensure that we are playing fair matches with people close to our own skill, so how would getting rid of this (as you said should happen) possiblly get rid of the imbalance? I'm only asking you to back up and explain what you've said, because right now you are sounding like a parrot that repeats what it's heard from others on these forums without actually having any idea of what you are saying or talking about lol.

SBMM makes you lose 50% of your games. Go look at my hunters recent skirmish games where i went solo. It's 50% wins 50% losses.

[quote]SBMM makes you lose 50% of your games. Go look at my hunters recent skirmish games where i went solo. It's 50% wins 50% losses.[/quote] So because you go 50-50, you assume it's sbmm?! Lol ok bud. If what you say is true then every player would have a 50-50 win/loss, but that's not the case. You are losing half your games, which is your fault not sbmm, stop making excuses for losing. This claim makes no sense. You still havnt answered my question of [u][b]how[/b][/u] sbmm makes you go 50-50.

If i went with a fireteam of three i would have won much more games because i wouldn't have bad teammates. There's a reason i have lost games on skirmish recently where i got over 3000 score by myself. Two of my teammates can't even get 2000 combined! And the reason is SBMM, because it doesn't work like it's supposed to, because stats don't mean everything, it just doesn't work in a game like this.

I already said it. SBMM will never work, because the system where it takes people is flawed. I'd rather have the whole player pool, who have good connections, so that i could have no latency games, full lobbies, and i wouldn't have to wait for over 5 mins for a game. And i know the matchmaking system better because i have more experience playing with it. We have also made alt accounts to try and match each other while the alt has horrible stats and good connections to each other. It wouldn't match.

[quote]I already said it. SBMM will never work, because the system where it takes people is flawed. I'd rather have the whole player pool, who have good connections, so that i could have no latency games, full lobbies, and i wouldn't have to wait for over 5 mins for a game. And i know the matchmaking system better because i have more experience playing with it. We have also made alt accounts to try and match each other while the alt has horrible stats and good connections to each other. It wouldn't match.[/quote] The whole player pool doesn't have a good connection. Redbars would still exist the only difference is that the top 10% of players would almost never get to play people who could actually beat them. The Elite players would have easy matches more often, and Pubstomp while everyone else would get shafted. If skill wasn't filtered or taken into account, which is what you are saying that you want, that would mean regular people could be matched with players like TripleWreck and get Pubstomp ed every match. As I've said at least 2x before, that is ridiculous and not fun for anyone except the elite players. Which is why they were the main ones bitching for a system like that with no sbmm to exist. There is a reason literally every game with matchmaking has some kind of sbmm or skill-filtering. It's broken and unfair without it. As I said before, sbmm works the same way for someone that's played 300 or 3000 games. We are both playing under the exact same system and playing almost at the same skill level. 300+ games is plenty to have experienced all that destiny matchmaking system had to offer. The "I've played more matches than you so therefore my ridiculous opinion is more correct than yours" is a silly argument that's overused on these forums and is just another attempt at trying to stat shame when someone runs out of valid counrer-arguments.

Your n.1 text is bullshit. TripleWreck and other good players are top 1%. That's 1% of the WHOLE playerbase. You won't be matching against those guys every single time. More like once in every 30 games. I think it's more fair to give everyone a no latency match than actually punish people for being good by laggy opponents and other really talented players. I wouldn't mind getting matched up only against top 1% people if they had good connections. I would improve lot faster. So would you. And as for n.2 I just have more experience with the system. I have experienced the glitches and flaws of the matchmaking system. You probably haven't. If sbmm gets removed and you are afraid of getting destroyed go play strikes. I've been a bad player like you when i started, even worse, but if there wasn't sbmm, i would be probably lot better by now.

[quote]Your n.1 text is bullshit. TripleWreck and other good players are top 1%. That's 1% of the WHOLE playerbase. You won't be matching against those guys every single time. More like once in every 30 games. I think it's more fair to give everyone a no latency match than actually punish people for being good by laggy opponents and other really talented players. I wouldn't mind getting matched up only against top 1% people if they had good connections. I would improve lot faster. So would you. And as for n.2 I just have more experience with the system. I have experienced the glitches and flaws of the matchmaking system. You probably haven't. If sbmm gets removed and you are afraid of getting destroyed go play strikes. I've been a bad player like you when i started, even worse, but if there wasn't sbmm, i would be probably lot better by now.[/quote] I never said you'd match them every single time. Obviously that's not going to happen. The point that u was making (which you completely missed) is that they are almost always going to play people below their skill level. That top 1% gets to play the other 90-99% of players that are not at their skill level is some kind of sbmm or skill filtering doesn't exist. This is broken, and not fair to anyone but that top 1%. Latency would still exist, and redbars would still exist. Your idea wouldn't solve the problem. That's what I've been trying to get you to understand. As I said before Bungie caters to the majority. Your ideas are not the majority opinion, which is why they've been ignored. All they would do is make pvp better for a select few, and make it worse for everyone else. I've experienced every lag, glitch, and flaw that you have. That's not my point. Those glitches and lag are not caused by sbmm, they exist whether sbmm is around or not. My point is that sbmm works the same regardless of how many matches you play. That's been my point since the beginning when you tried to use your stats to invalidate my opinion. No, judging by your kd, sbmm is the only reason you win matches. If it didn't exist you'd be playing against people with 2.0+ kd who would be wrecking you lol. It's official, you have no idea what sbmm is. I can tell by your responses so far. I now realize I'm arguing with someone who doesn't know the topic or what he's talking about. This has been a waste of time lol

there would be less latency and less redbars and yes, it wouldn't totally remove the problem sit happens sometimes. and it is fair because the have practised hours upon hours on end to git gud and SBMM just takes lot of it away. Actually, taking off SBMM is the majoritys opinion, the ones who play crucible consistently As for the second one i have checked peoples stats and how SBMM works. I know a lot more about the system than you do. Heck, you didn't even know how trials matchmaking works. The last one is bullshit. I've beaten multiple 2kd guys and can sometimes almost do as good as they do. Did you know that over 2kd is top 1-3%? I'm around top 15-20% so do the math now, that means i would get 80% of the time easier opponents and worse teammates. I know how SBMM truly works, because it is flawed because sometimes there are no other good connection quality players. this is how it is flawed. 1. First it finds a couple of people who have good connection to me and are at the same skill level. Then it can't find no more on the same skill level so then happens either 2.a or 2.b 2A. it will only find players who don't have that good of a connection but are similar skill level 2B. it will find players who have good connection, but are outside of my skill level (they are either bad or good) which leads to number 3 3. It can't balance the teams once they have one player who must carry his team, and the other team is balanced, are those really Balanced teams? Or it will come a laggy match. Or sometimes both happen. the system is flawed. I'd prefer having good connections over my opponents being same skill level because it can't find enough matches right now.

[quote]there would be less latency and less redbars and yes, it wouldn't totally remove the problem sit happens sometimes. and it is fair because the have practised hours upon hours on end to git gud and SBMM just takes lot of it away. Actually, taking off SBMM is the majoritys opinion, the ones who play crucible consistently As for the second one i have checked peoples stats and how SBMM works. I know a lot more about the system than you do. Heck, you didn't even know how trials matchmaking works. The last one is bullshit. I've beaten multiple 2kd guys and can sometimes almost do as good as they do. Did you know that over 2kd is top 1-3%? I'm around top 15-20% so do the math now, that means i would get 80% of the time easier opponents and worse teammates.[/quote] I've come to realize you aren't comprehending my simple points. You've yet to back up anything you've said nor answer my original question of how sbmm is making you lose 50% of your matches. I'm tired of repeating myself, and you've proven long ago that you really have no idea how sbmm works lol. All you've done is Stat shame, blame sbmm and make excuses for your losses and spew random stats and situations that happen to you, and assume that it happens to everyone else the same way. I won this argument long ago, I'm tired of going in circles with you. I can tell you aren't smart enough to get my point, let alone agree with it once you have. I can't debate someone who doesn't know the topic. Agree to disagree. Good day guardian.

You are probably afraid of people destroying you, however you are like in top 40%. 60% are worse players than you (not all are active). I feel like Bungie should value more top peoples opinions than players who just play 200 games and leave.

[quote]You are probably afraid of people destroying you, however you are like in top 40%. 60% are worse players than you (not all are active). I feel like Bungie should value more top peoples opinions than players who just play 200 games and leave.[/quote] First off, your stats are damn near the same as mine lol, if I'm getting destroyed your right there with me. And don't bother bringing up elo, I really don't care about that, I look at kd and nothing more. Second, as I said before Im not afraid of losing, destiny pvp is so broken its a joke and I'll never take it seriously in its current form so losing means nothing to me, I play crucible for bounties and gear. I do however want to avoid getting pubstomped every match. That's not fair nor fun. Like I said before, [u][b]you[/b][/u] may enjoy getting destroyed every match, but the rest of us would rather have fair competition and a real chance at winning. Bungie caters to the majority. The majority of players are like me and you, average as shit and just trying to have fun. The mlg pros should not be listened to while the other 90% of the playerbase gets ignored. Thats stupid from a logical and business standpoint.

You haven't even gone flawless or even played trials. Probably because SBMM isn't protecting you lol.

[quote]You haven't even gone flawless or even played trials. Probably because SBMM isn't protecting you lol.[/quote] Judging by your kd, you were carried to the lighthouse. Relax pvp God. Sbmm is the only reason you've ever gone flawless. You're nowhere near good enough to have made it there without SBMM lol. And I don't play trials for the same reason the majority of this community doesn't play trials, [u][b]because it's broken[/b][/u]. People literally lag, ddos, and pay their way to the lighthouse. Too much bullshit like that to deal with, for shit rewards. Big deal, you got to the lighthouse, destiny pvp is a broken mess, I literally take nothing seriously in regards to Destiny pvp. Cheating, lag, and pay to win has destroyed any legit stats and accolades in this game. People cheat and lag their way to the top of the leaderboards which has destroyed any legitimacy they had. Do good in a real, balanced pvp game and then you can brag.

My kd? Well check out this. I had a 0.88 overall kd in trials in y2, but in year three i have over 1.5 and i have held a 1.7 many weeks in a row. Click on my overall kd and you will see. I actually nowadays try to help people to go to the lighthouse. https://destinytrialsreport.com/ps/Pallo-orava And you have a clear misunderstanding of trials matchmaking and its players. You are so new to trials, that you don't even know what kind of MM system is in trials. There is no SBMM in trials it's a card based matchmaking system. Cheaters, ddos, paid carries/account recoveries. As for them, i have been never ddosed in trials. Nor my buddies. It's so rare but people who don't go there often usually think that they got ddosed while they really didn't. And the make a big post about it. Paid carries yeah some people do that, but it's quite rare. Acco recoveries even more so. I would say i run into account recoveries once in 50 games of trials