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publicado originalmente en: So the traveler is now irrelevant
8/30/2016 12:20:42 PM
19
I'd far from say the traveler is irrelevant. While the traveler is certainly not active and directly impacting the story in the current timeline, the traveler is the very reason everything is happening. The fallen are here because they want to reclaim the traveler. Oryx sent Crota, because Oryx has vowed to chase the traveler wherever it goes. Oryx came because we killed Crota, whom he sent after the traveler as above. And there just feels like there is some kind of major tiff between Rasputin and the traveler, that is slowly developing. The concept of the traveler isn't irrelevant - it is the basis of everything.
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  • "Timeline" Here comes the marvel universe all over again. Please no alternate timelines. 2spoop4meh

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  • Editado por Senor Crouch: 8/31/2016 7:43:04 AM
    While all of your above statements may be true after reading the Grimoire Cards, all but one listed are never properly conveyed within the game itself. See this is why I avoid reading the cards entirely because then it is easy to overlook what's told and not told within the game. Reading the cards gives way to what I call "get out of jail free" syndrome. From the lens of what is told to us in the game itself, we are still not entirely clear on the motives of the Fallen. It got even more confusing when we found out that there are some Fallen that aren't our enemies....sure, okay, plot reasons I suppose. We know Crota was on the moon to conquer it for reasons, but those reasons were never clearly expressed. Player Guardians can assume it was for more territory and a strategic base of operations to invade the Earth....maybe, I dunno, we were told to do a thing because of a thing and we did it! YAY! Score 1 for mindless zombies, I guess. Now to get to the Traveler. Maybe in the scope of the Grimoire you'd be correct, but what has the Traveler done within the game exactly? If a character is going to have enough weight to be on promotional posters for a game then you'd expect that character to have a substantial role in whatever story the game is going to flesh out. - Battle against the Black Garden: Traveler's role in the success of the mission - Nothing. - Battle against Crota: Traveler's role in stopping Crota - Nothing. - Battle against Skolas: Traveler's role in prohibiting the Wolves from getting Atheon's tech - Nothing. - Battle against Oryx: Traveler's role in defending the Galaxy - Nothing. - Battle against SIVA Round 1 - Traveler's role in protecting the city and keeping the Iron Lords safe - Nothing. - Battle against SIVA Round 2 - Traveler's role in stopping the Splicers - Nothing. My point is, and to some extent the OP's, if a character can be removed from the game entirely and still have the game's story arc play out the exact same way with or without that character then can that character be called "relevant"?

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  • The issue is that WE are the travellers proxy army. As an agent of the Sky the traveller can only create and run. It is through us it is able to defend itself and attack others.

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  • Editado por Senor Crouch: 8/31/2016 4:11:34 PM
    With a bit of backstory from the Grimoire I am sure all that is true, but in the game it is never properly established that the Traveler can only create and run or that it needs others to defend it. I'll give you a couple of examples. - One of the first instances we are privy to what the Traveler can do is the first time we visit the Tower. Our Ghost drops us off and states, "Welcome to the last safe City on Earth - - the only place the Traveler can still protect." - Then there is the Ghost's opening monologue in [i]The Eye of a Gate Lord[/i] story mission, "The more we learn about the Vex, the more I understand why our Exo friend is so worried about them. During the Collapse the Vex transformed the planet Mercury into a machine in days. They would have spread to every planet if the Traveler hadn't stopped them. We need to get into the Black Garden. We need a Gate Lord's head." Never is it stated that the Traveler set up a team of Guardians to protect the last safe City on Earth nor is it stated that the Traveler sent its best Guardians to stop the Vex from spreading after the fall of Mercury. It is conveyed to the audience that the Traveler can fend and fight for itself, with or without the Guardians. And yet for all the power that it is said to have, it doesn't even try to commune with its Champions, the Guardians, in the darkest of times. And I know what you are thinking, "But the Traveler is sleeping." or "But the Traveler is dead." (If you subscribe to what Eris Morn states in [i]The Will of Crota[/i] Strike Mission, "In its dying breath the Traveler created the Ghosts to open doors."). Well how can a sleeping or dead deity protect a city? "...the only place the Traveler can still protect."

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  • Editado por The BEATDWN: 8/31/2016 7:01:41 PM
    But it'd well documented that the titans protected the city and built the wall with no other intervention from the traveler other then the light they wield. It can be assumed by the "traveler can protect" they mean it's guardians imo.

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  • The Traveller has Geoforming abilities so it somehow halted or slowed the Vex on Mars and Venus. It's speculated that the Traveller provides defense shield against air an space attacks. Again not explained in game. It's said by our Ghost at the begining of TTK that the ghosts where made with the final breath of the Traveller. To me that's a last ditch effort at surviving. Creating an undead proxy army that is able to get stronger through Sword logic like the Hive and able to come back from death similar to Throne Worlds.

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  • Yeah and I really wish we got to see some of those abilities being used in game because they sound really cool and would give us some context of just what is the Traveler and what it can do. I would have loved for the Speaker to have told us about how the Traveler is an Agent of the Sky and what that means in some regard. I hope that in the future Bungie can bridge that gap between rich lore and current in-game knowledge. This is why I pose these questions on the forums, more so for Bungie to contemplate in how they craft storytelling in the future. One of the main reasons I got into gaming and continue to play games: rich, coherent narrative.

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  • Same here actually. I love the lore in the Grimoire but no two ways about it. The lore within the game is sparse and at times almost mocking "just shoot it" No I want to know how this things works.

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  • Exactly.

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  • But why isn't it directly in the story instead of just passively existing in the background?

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  • While he technically is the foundation of the story, we know suprisingly little about it, and it hasn't done anything in the currenty story

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  • so bungle says now... in a year the traveler will be a giant jawbreaker that crota broke his tooth on thus igniting Oryx's rage

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  • True, but I'd rather the narrative directly address it. A LOT of players don't read Grimmoire (whether they don't want to or don't like that it's not in game) and don't seem to get that connection. Bungie needs to start incorporating the material from the Grimmoire cards directly rather than making vague references to them or expect players to have that basis in the back of their minds when analyzing the content of what's presented in-game, it's a bit too much to ask for, and there's absolutely no reason why we have to go out of the game to see the lore rather than having it in-game in some sort of archive or have it presented to us in the narrative.

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  • Totally agree with you

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  • Correct, the Traveller is the basis. I'd just wish the narrative would treat it as such. People have forgotten it's importance as there has been almost no mention of it since the main story. I'm OK with them drawing it out or building it up ect. but don't forget to occasionally remind players of the importance of the character. (Same can be said for the Exo Stranger)

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  • Agreed entirely. The speaker is overlooked, the stranger is overlooked, as is the traveller. Again I don't mind build up, build up is great. But you have to actually build it up not ignore it entirely. I love the grimoire cards but I agree those items should be incorporated into the story, whether by cut scenes or by something along the lines of turning the cards into a archive and getting a cut scene or story or even dialog from the archive curator.

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  • Yes. If anyone remembers back in the Halo days there were terminals to find in the games levels. Hell even 343 keeps that going in the new games, I don't see how Bungie can't go back to that formula again. It's simple: have us keep discovering the Grimoire cards out in the game like before, but have an area in the Tower where we can view the cards after discovering them. And if they want to be stylish, since the club area in the Tower is designed for Hunters, make a library designed for Warlocks and put the Grimoire archive there.

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  • This. Grimoire should be for additional deeper lore if people want it. Instead, Bungie has replaced all story with it.

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  • Reminding people of importance of something after it hasn't been mentioned in awhile before building it is a hallmark of good storytelling. Not doing that is bad. I don't know why Bungie chose to weaken its story that way.

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