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Editado por Adam: 10/18/2015 6:51:17 AM
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Adam

Bungie, Your Sandbox Designers Are Still Failing Miserably At Balancing The PvP

Remember a few months ago when everyone used to complain about Thorn/The Last Word/Hawkmoon? This idea that you pretty much had to use one type of weapon in order to stay competitive? How you'd join a game of Iron Banner and literally every single person in the lobby was using a Hand Cannon? We all disliked it..... It was boring. Pair that with the shotguns, and the game just wasn't fun. There was a community outcry to have it changed, so Bungie put out patch 2.0 with TTK. Yet here we are, 7-8 weeks later, still stuck with an unbalanced mess of a game, even after the 'Holy Grail' of balance patches in 2.0. The only difference is, this Iron Banner, instead of being forced to use Hand Cannons, we're now having to use Pulse Rifles (which are even easier to use than Hand Cannons ever were) Instead of entire teams of Bladedancer Hunters, now it's all Sunbreaker Titans. Pre 2.0, everyone used the same shotgun. Post 2.0 everyone uses the same shotgun. Some pretty bad decisions off the top of my head: [i]*Final Round, a broken perk that allowed a sniper to OHK to the body was removed/changed............. In TTK, Luck in The Chamber is introduced to High Impact Sniper RIfles, allowing them to OHK to the body * The dominant PvP weapon pre 1.1.1, Auto Rifles, were nerfed [b]heavily[/b] leading to a meta where Hand Cannons ruled. The nerfs were largely down to an exotic, Suros Regime.............. The dominant PvP weapon pre 2.0, Hand Cannons, are nerfed heavily, leading to a meta where Pulse Rifles dominate. The nerfs are down to exotics, Thorn/The Last Word * Shot Package is removed from shotguns in an attempt to solve the shotgun epidemic plaguing the Crucible....... Weeks after a 300 attack High Impact Shotgun with RangeFinder is given to every player *A large factor in the shotgun abuse was the Vanilla map design of tiny claustrophobic maps which favour heavy shotgun use.......... In TTK, the majority of the maps are tiny claustrophobic maps, which favour heavy shotgun use * The Sandbox Designers make range & damage drop off an important aspect of weapon balance after Hand Cannons have seemingly no damage drop off........ Every weapon type suffers severe damage drop off. Pulse Rifles have seemingly no damage drop off *Sunbreakers and Stormcallers are released in the most gamebreaking state....... Seriously, were these even tested?! [/i] [/i] Now I'm not saying the game should be perfect. there are a Hell of a lot of variables to balance, which make this a complicated process.... But to see these poor decisions being made so consistently is incredibly frustrating as a PvP player. To have a game with such potential being squandered by imbalance patch after patch is very disappointing. Just my thoughts. - An avid PvP player since the Beta

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  • Actually its mostly nightstalkers more that sunbreakers for certain reasons.

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  • Had to buy a red death just to be effective enough in IB without being irritated. Prefer scouts but they just don't pack enough punch, and are outgunned by the pulse rifles even at range.

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    • Editado por DLegitNoob: 10/18/2015 7:34:28 AM
      Year 1 Meta Tlw/thorn Felwinter (Op shot package ) everyone used it and only this Bladedancer plauge Year 2 Meta Pulse rifles (Pre nerf thorn was op af and noob friendly) now the new felwinter is the conspiracy theory that you get from the nightfall with range finder (shotguns are still Op) Now the worst of all,bungie 100% definitely did not test the new subclasess they didn't give af they had to make bread as soon as possible. Shadow shot glitches, sunbreakers glitches what's next? I could literally name a million things thats wrong with sunbreaker One that I will soon use before a possible nerf (muahahaha) is armentarium with fusion nades. Fusion nades fully heal you with the cauterize perk and you can have 2. Totally balanced and fair.

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      • In any system with variation, there will always be a most efficient option. In a competitive scenario, players will always gravitate towards the most efficient option. No matter what nerfs or buffs Bungie implements, there will always be a "best weapon", and it will always be overused. The sooner you (and I mean "you" in general, not the OP specifically) learn this, the sooner you can stop trying to rely on the developers to create a mythical balanced game, and start learning to adapt to the shifting meta game.

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        • It's better than it ever has been

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        • I've had success with every weapon type so far. And I've found that now I'm not locked into a single weapon type you just need to adjust your play style to whichever weapon you choose to use. I even started using fusion rifles with great success the past couple of days and I've never been good with them in PvP. Most importantly now is that every gun fight I'm in is just that, a gun fight. Both sides have a chance and whoever has the better skill wins. That couldn't be said in the previous meta so I'm happy.

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          • Bungie plz nerf shotguns! I stand in front of them Ang die :(

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          • Editado por Advenence: 10/17/2015 7:47:15 AM
            I completely agree with you. This game isn't even a multiplayer game. Unfortunately, the honest truth is that Crucible is just a side game mode and isn't what Destiny is dedicated to. We as players expect a high platform AAA PvP experience, which is something that Bungie wasn't expecting. What they essentially did was instead of releasing one high quality product like other exclusively multiplayer games attempt to do, they mashed together multiple half ass concepts (vanilla-PvE and PvP). The crucible doesnt have private matches, which is flagship in every online multiplayer game since like 2005 and it doesn't even have a game lobby, another basic standard for multiplayer. It's just a game mode that isn't taken seriously. In their eyes, a game of crucible is equivalent to a strike. As Destiny players, once we get bored of PvP they expect as to go play the other thing they made (PvE) because this was never supposed to be a fully "Multiplayer" game. As much potential this game has as a competetive multiplayer, and us much as us PvP players desire it, the crucible that Bungie has made caters to casual players as a whole, because again, it's just another game mode. Not a competitive atmosphere that most top tier players are searching for. In this game, you literally have to circumvent the matchmaking system just to set up a match and sweat/scrim with another team. Clearly, that isn't something they thought players would do, because once again, it was designed for casuals, not competetive players. Lately, I've started to accept this concept. Although Destiny is unique and diverse game, it simply wasn't made for the hardcore FPS player and when new games come out, I'll be playing competitively over there. Perhaps there will be changes in Destiny 2, but I don't see it hopping in this current game's lifetime.

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            • preach

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            • Destiny PVP has so many moving parts I doubt it can ever really be balanced. The HC need was unnecessary, as it was the exotic perks that were the real problem with them. A small range falloff would make sense, but they are precision weapon that now have to be used basically at close range. Snipers are also an issue with their insane aim assist. I think shotguns are not bad now. What else are they supposed to do it not kill you up close? It is the CQC maps and movement abilities that make them deadly, but this is what the majority of people want. Quick and dirty fast matches. They dumped First Light and Bastion because people refused to play them.

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              • They aren't really failing, and if it is unbearable just don't play :)

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              • Have to agree. Separate the PvE and PvP or this game will die. Especially since content between now and winter 2016 will be utterly thin.

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              • I think the sandbox Titan players really suck with the super.. so they were all like... damn this needs a buff.... titans suck...

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              • Pulse rifles seem a little out of control at long range now. It might be nice if the matched started you with two magazines of special and one of heavy. But didn't spawn any special or heavy ammo. Make it more about primary weapons.

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              • Well. That pretty .much sums up the entirety of the pvp in this game

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              • Editado por Ghost J34: 10/18/2015 6:14:55 AM
                This game lost any semblance of balance it had once TTK released. This game's PvP is a joke. Do yourself a favor and play this game for the raids while playing Halo or CoD for the PvP. Bungie has shown that they never plan to take the Crucible aspect of this game seriously. Most of the maps released with TTK are the worst maps I've ever played in an FPS. I would take Nuketown any day over 90% of the TTK maps.

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                • Crucible will always be like this, whatever is working the best, is what you will see everyone using, but all of what you mentioned above, are 100% counterable, you have to adapt...scouts are more than capable of shutting down pulse rifles, and supers, when used correctly... There will always be posts like this, but any real competitor, will adapt and move on, nothing in this game, ATM, is unbeatable... Hunters can shoot a million shadow shots, so what, bullets to the face still kill them, titans can throw a million hammers, and bullets to the face WON'T kill them, so what, run away, or die, and go get revenge 3 or 4 times before that titan gets their super back...do the math!

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                  • Pulse rifles are a bit too good, but it's a much smaller gap between them and everything else, than the one we had when Hand cannons were best. Also, there are a bunch more competitive pulse rifles than there were hand cannons.

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                    • the balance is fine. though auto rifles could be bumped up just a bit

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                    • After all this time...people are STILL begging for "balance"?

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                      • Stormcallers are not broken. They require you to be within a certain range to get kills. You can kill them much more often than they can kill you because of this. The problem is the CQC maps Bungie keeps making.

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                      • Editado por GrEaSYmUFFiN325: 10/18/2015 4:52:41 AM
                        I find IB has been the most diverse it's ever been. No more thorn exclusive primaries. Sure, shotguns are still big but they don't bother me. Not too often I see the same weapon over and over. Haven't even seen hawk moon as much as I thought i would have either.

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                      • Honestly it's pathetic how shitty they are at this.

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                      • Who agrees handcannon and auto rifle range need a buff

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                        • I enjoy crucible way more now. I used to use last word religiously and was very good with it. I now use pulse rifles, scout rifles and sometime an auto rifle or two.

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                          • Auto Rifles should always be a bit weaker than everything else just based on how forgiving they are so I am okay with that. I think they honestly make the dominant classes just to mix things up. There is no way they are so incompetent that they just go from one clearly superior weapon type to the next. We went from Autos, to Hand Canons, to Pulse Rifles. I would be willing to bet that the next major patch will make Scout Rifles dominant.

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