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Editado por Adam:
10/18/2015 6:51:17 AM
202
Bungie, Your Sandbox Designers Are Still Failing Miserably At Balancing The PvP
Remember a few months ago when everyone used to complain about Thorn/The Last Word/Hawkmoon? This idea that you pretty much had to use one type of weapon in order to stay competitive? How you'd join a game of Iron Banner and literally every single person in the lobby was using a Hand Cannon? We all disliked it..... It was boring. Pair that with the shotguns, and the game just wasn't fun. There was a community outcry to have it changed, so Bungie put out patch 2.0 with TTK.
Yet here we are, 7-8 weeks later, still stuck with an unbalanced mess of a game, even after the 'Holy Grail' of balance patches in 2.0. The only difference is, this Iron Banner, instead of being forced to use Hand Cannons, we're now having to use Pulse Rifles (which are even easier to use than Hand Cannons ever were) Instead of entire teams of Bladedancer Hunters, now it's all Sunbreaker Titans. Pre 2.0, everyone used the same shotgun. Post 2.0 everyone uses the same shotgun.
Some pretty bad decisions off the top of my head:
[i]*Final Round, a broken perk that allowed a sniper to OHK to the body was removed/changed.............
In TTK, Luck in The Chamber is introduced to High Impact Sniper RIfles, allowing them to OHK to the body
* The dominant PvP weapon pre 1.1.1, Auto Rifles, were nerfed [b]heavily[/b] leading to a meta where Hand Cannons ruled. The nerfs were largely down to an exotic, Suros Regime..............
The dominant PvP weapon pre 2.0, Hand Cannons, are nerfed heavily, leading to a meta where Pulse Rifles dominate. The nerfs are down to exotics, Thorn/The Last Word
* Shot Package is removed from shotguns in an attempt to solve the shotgun epidemic plaguing the Crucible.......
Weeks after a 300 attack High Impact Shotgun with RangeFinder is given to every player
*A large factor in the shotgun abuse was the Vanilla map design of tiny claustrophobic maps which favour heavy shotgun use..........
In TTK, the majority of the maps are tiny claustrophobic maps, which favour heavy shotgun use
* The Sandbox Designers make range & damage drop off an important aspect of weapon balance after Hand Cannons have seemingly no damage drop off........
Every weapon type suffers severe damage drop off. Pulse Rifles have seemingly no damage drop off
*Sunbreakers and Stormcallers are released in the most gamebreaking state....... Seriously, were these even tested?!
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Now I'm not saying the game should be perfect. there are a Hell of a lot of variables to balance, which make this a complicated process.... But to see these poor decisions being made so consistently is incredibly frustrating as a PvP player. To have a game with such potential being squandered by imbalance patch after patch is very disappointing.
Just my thoughts.
- An avid PvP player since the Beta
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2 RespuestasIf any of you have ever watched the people at Bungie play any of their games, you'll understand that they are awful at everything they make. They don't know how to balance the game because they aren't good at it. It's just like my department managers at work. They spend all day barking orders at associates to get stuff done. They leave the department, we get swarmed with customers, and when they come back, they wonder why their orders weren't done. If the people in charge don't know what's going on inside whatever they're in charge of, they shouldn't be allowed to make decisions about how it works.
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Editado por xDas MilkMan: 10/19/2015 6:22:26 AMThis is honestly one of the best iron banners to me. It used to be tlw and thorn. That's it. But now, I've been getting kills with pulses,scouts,autos and hand cannons. Special weapons are different as it is 95% conspiracy theory and 1000-yard stare lmao
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2 RespuestasEither balance or remove the damn pulse riffles
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2 Respuestasauto rifles were obviously nerfed because of Galahad-B ~A very Avid player since Alpha
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Not true. I hit rank five & never touched a pulse rifle until I bought Nirwen's Mercy. Started with my Suros AR-15, then I got Tlaloc.
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2 RespuestasMy chief concern isn't so much now the weapon balance, but the hugely broken matchmaking. I get a team that either loses or wins by a crazy margin 85% of the time. Thus 15% of matches truly feel exciting. Also, spawn flipping sucks and only happens because, yes, most of the maps are too small.
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Why not just take all the guns out of PvP, no supers and no melee attacks. That should make it pretty even. Then no one will complain that they got shot when they go into a game where the whole point of it is having the other team trying to kill you.
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Rebuff everything back to its former days Make ARs prior to year 1 2nd nerf: doing ~25 precision dmg with a larger hit box. Keep dmg drop off. Handcannons: the reduced aim assist is fine as is. Hit box just a little larger. Get the 1 bullet back and keep dmg drop off. Scout rifles: before 2.0. Pulse rifles: before 2.0 Sniper rifle: aim Assisi the same across all sniper rifles. Shotguns I think are fine. It's just the cqc maps are annoying Fusion is fine Sad that year 2 has a handful of side arms and no exotics Get range back for machine guns Rocket launchers - get velocity back Reforge would be nice to have back just with perk restrictions. That's all
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People are going to use whatever is going to give them the best advantage and is the strongest. Unless all the weapons were completely equal in stats, there is always going to be one type of weapon that is favored over the others by a good margin. I agree sun breaker Titan needs to be looked at again but as for weapons, I use a paleocontact auto rifle with focus fire and stability and range perk and I wreck with it in pvp. My new iron banner pulse rifle is solid too
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1 RespuestaEditado por tekkendog: 10/19/2015 5:20:10 AMWhy do they keep playing one monster and creating another? First is auto rifles in particular its only 2 and they nerf the entire class beyond usability. Because of this people move to scout rifles for a while before they decide to buff thorn and then it becomes the new standard crucible weapon. Now they have nerfed thorn and all headcanons for that matter in the accuracy department because it makes a lot of sense that when you're using the slowest firing weapon in the primary category that you don't need all of your bullets to hit where they're aiming... sarcasm. Now its pulse rifles because they can't seem to find where exactly this class of weapon is supposed to fit in on the battlefield so it can do everything and it is all I am getting killed by. Anybody in these forums obviously has a love of destiny because they care enough to come and read this crap. So I dare say that anybody in these forums could tell them exactly what they need to do to make all of the guns competitive and balanced. But people who get paid to do this and research this can't figure it out.
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8 Respuestasscouts work great right now too, autos work at close range where scouts/pulse are harder to use. scouts + autos + pulses >>>>> thorn/TLW sunbreaker is getting a nerf in the next patch, just like bladedancer way back. Conspiracy theory - D is not nearly as long range as felwinter/PC+1/ Matador so far this is the best balance we have got yet, it's not perfect but its getting there eventually.
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I think if they buff everything to prenerf levels it would be the funnest pvp to date. Fusion rifles to counter shotguns. Auto rifles to counter hand cannons etc but it will probably never happen.
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3 RespuestasPerfectly explained what is wrong with the game. I think we can all agree perfection is going to be difficult. We aren't asking for that. We are asking for balance. Instead they are creating seasons of weapon meta's, which is extremely lazy. It's not only an admission of laziness it creates stale and boring game play. Bungie need to realise the longevity of the game is in pvp and crucible. The raids are fun, yes but they have a shelf life and after 3 or 4 weeks it gets repetitive. Which is where most of us turn to pvp. It's in bungies interest to make crucible better for that reason. I couldn't agree more. And as a pvp player too it was obvious within the first few games when ttk was released what was wrong. I don't know what or how they go about testing or if it's intentional. All I know is it isn't fun. We are forced to use pulse rifles. Yes, some other guns are more competitive than before, but put an equally skilled pulse rifle user against a scout/auto (don't bother with hand cannons) they will win every time. And red death is the new thorn, with health regeneration abilities. The maps are designed for shot gunning. The numerous objects which ruin line of sight. There is little reason to use a sniper and even less to use side arms or fusions because shotguns do everything they do better and more efficiently. And then sun breakers and storm callers. I think most intelligent people will agree that sun breakers are unbalanced. Outside of their super they have 2 of the best grenades in the game a perfectly good melee which used with s shotgun can heal you to full. However, the storm caller is nearly as bad, it just isn't realised yet because all you can see is a orange hammer flying at you face all the time. I appreciate you making this thread. It won't get anything changed, Bungie won't read this, they will look at a spreadsheet of data which mostly backs this up but also skews the reasoning behind it. If they played the game they would realise 2.0 is far from the saviour they thought it was supposed to be. And 9 months of the previous meta doesn't look good for us. I personally can't see me playing much longer. I wanna see the new hard mode and try trials once more. Although we all know what a mess that will be. Red death - conspiracy D shot gun - suros G&h rocket. And the occasional luck in the chamber sniper. Such a shame, the gun play is beautiful and one of the best I've played and it showed a lot of promise. They didn't learn much from a year of Beta, that we paid for. (Sorry English language in advance)
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I will agree with everything but the Sunbreaker being OP. Stormcaller is far better, but isn't OP either.
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I am also a pvp player since the beta. I agree 100% with everything you wrote. It is so frustrating to see the state of the game currently. My biggest frustration is over the hand cannon nerf and shotgun imbalance... Combined with the ridiculous OP supers Well stated post. Thanks for adding to the discussion! I hope Bungie is reading.
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4 RespuestasI just want a damned map where I don't have to fear being taken down by a shotgun every second of the match. Is this seriously too much to ask for? v_v
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12 RespuestasFunny... a Hunter complaining about every subclass but his own, I mean Titans deserve it, they're OP, but Warlocks aren't.
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Quit giving hunters a bad name!
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Storm callers aren't OP. Maybe after the Nerf to sunbreakers
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As someone who plays alot of PvP, I have experienced all the weapon classes and my opinion is. This new weapon balancing is pretty fair, all four primary weapon classes are deadly in their own way. But wether people use those other classes is on them not on the designers. Some people say pulse rifles are god tier? Well my two shot hawkmoon says otherwise, so does my fully charged tlaloc or answering chord auto rifle. Other weapon classes are good, but most people feel comfortable using pulse rifles so that will be hard to change without nerfing them to the ground. But why should they?
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So here is the deal, everyone has read on the forums over and over how OP both Sunbreakers and Pulse Rifles are. Now, every single time you get killed by one you get to point to all this "evidence" of why you were killed by a "cheap" or "op" weapon or ability. It is your mind trying to square the fact that you died and it definitely wasn't your fault, and because everyone is talking about these things you notice them especially I've been killed by pulses, hand cannons, ARs and scouts all IB long. With the exception of Sunbreakers (only need to nerf or get rid of cauterize, the damage resistance is fine, that's what the class is supposed to be) nothing is dominant. People have found high stability weapons and hit you with headshots. That's it.
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Everything is balanced in this game. Basically 9/10 deaths people have in crucible are one hit kills. Between, supers, shotguns, snipers, fusion rifles, heavy weapons just about everything is a one hit kill. They've balanced the game but just with everything being a one hit kill. It's strange when I die from a primary weapon.
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Sandbox Engineer on a linear game with predictable gameplay that makes Assassins Creed look original... That's a good one.
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2 RespuestasNo competitive pvp game has great balance. It is a myth.
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Well, look at this. Another hunter complaining about Sunbreaker and stormcaller. Muted.
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what to know the problem with balancing things? Its hard to tell if there is acctully a problem with the weapon or ability, or its people being salty another problem is since there is not just one sniper, one shot gun, one auto rifle etc. people r going to choose ones that have better abilities so it shouldn't be uncommon for hundreds of people to use the same one
