[quote]...there is the question of what happens when you stop providing a reward, which is referred to as "extinction."
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As a general rule, extinction involves a lot of frustration and anger on the part of the [player]. We expect the universe to make sense, to be consistent, and when the contingencies change we get testy.
-- John Hopson, head of User Research at Bungie[/quote]
The above quote is taken from an [url=http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131494/behavioral_game_design.php?page=2]article[/url] written by John Hopson, 14 years ago, and cited multiple times in this forum recently due to the uproar over Bungivision's business practices (I have linked it again for convenience).
As loathe as I am to admit it, I suppose this is the crux of my issue with what they've done to Destiny if you choose not to purchase TTK. I still "own" the game, but they have altered it in such a way as to remove my "reward" system. If I continue to play this (now hobbled) game, I can no longer "earn" legendaries, or currency with which to purchase legendaries (which is my current "acceptable" level of reward). I can not access higher difficulties, which are simply a method of increasing my chances for "earning" those rewards. In short, they have taken my slot machine and turned off most of the winning combinations (unless I choose to pay them more money).
Now, don't get me wrong...it's the business practice of altering the game I bought which has actually kept me from paying them for TTK. If they had treated TTK in the same way as the previous two expansions, I almost certainly would have ended up buying this expansion as well. The issue, I suppose, is explaining to the fanbois (interesting editor's note...my spellcheck accepts "fanbois" as a word) who keep saying "they didn't remove any content". I think this illustrates the content they removed almost exactly. They removed my rewards. Yes, I can still play the mechanics of the game (in a reduced manner), but what they've removed is impetus, and I'm reacting exactly as Mr. Hopson predicted I would.
I've gotten "testy."
This also explains why Bungie has not responded in any way. The paper goes on to say that what will happen is that...
[quote]...behavior after the end of a contingency is shaped by what the contingency was. In a ratio schedule, the player will continue to work at a high rate for a long period of time before gradually trailing off. In a fixed interval schedule, their activity will continue to peak at about the time they expect to be rewarded for a few intervals before ceasing.[/quote]
They know that Y1 leftovers, as the subjects, will "beat up the other pigeon" (read the article) for a while, but eventually, we will cease.
I could go on to the additional correlations between the article and Destiny, but I'll let you do that for yourselves, if you want.
The question now is "What do I do about it?" The best course of action would be to leave the game and Bungivision behind, learn from the experience and try not to fall into the same trap in the future. Unfortunately for me, the withdrawal "testiness" is coupled with a moral outrage over ownership and licensing. I am upset that I've given them money and now I have, in my view, less to show for it than I had three weeks ago (through no fault of my own). It's tantamount to dealing with theft. I feel violated and cheated at the "unfairness" of it all.
I suppose the answer is I will continue to bi*ch for a while until my testiness AND moral outrage peter out, then I will go away feeling surly and sour toward both companies. I seriously doubt either will address the issue, because it is exactly what they are expecting and have designed.
English
#feedback
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1 RespuestaI agree completely with everything you said. That article is actually quite fascinating and a real eye opener as to why so many of the little things in Destiny were designed the way they were. Xur being only on weekends: Fixed Interval contingency reward. Even though his loot was still the most effective variable ratio coningency. Almost everything about Destiny is designed with psychological game behavioral elements. John Hopson actually has many great ideas involving game play and how to make games more enjoyable. Unfortunately, like anything can be, it seems to be taking a twist towards the manipulative direction with Destiny. Really too bad. I just walked away from the game once I realized it was Farmville with guns. I only keep coming back here to support the dissent in the hopes it will discourage this kind of developer behavior in future triple A games.
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Me and you are on the same step of the grieving process. But stay positive I have hope that they are and will address our concerns and have some sort of understanding on how to alleviate them. Right now I'm out on the next expansion but I hope I am pulled back and see you in the next title.
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1 RespuestaIt's all been planned and orchestrated. As with just about every aspect of society now, these assholes just assume they are smarter than the unwashed masses. Unfortunately for some of us, waves of fanboys lining up to lick their boots prove them right more often than not. Best just to ramble on and leave this boring ass mind numbing excuse for a game in the dust. I'm much happier after doing just that.
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This is an excellent post. Removing the reward system leaves those that have not yet purchased the expansion, and even those that had intended to do so, with no reason to even turn on destiny. I made a very similar, but less detailed post, the other day. https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/155749421/0/0 It also concludes that the level cap is the major issue.
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7 RespuestasI love this post. Very well said. Yeah, that's pretty much the reality of the situation. I mean at the end of the day, those who refuse to continue supporting this bullshit will eventually leave altogether and never come back. The Fanboys cheer and act all happy about this with that "Bye Felicia" tripe that Bungie just continues to let happen. And yet what they fail to realize is that the community is losing people because of it and those people are leaving with a horribly negative opinion about the game and the companies involved with its handling and development. In turn, this damages Bungie's reputation which they spent years building up. Eventually, it will come a time when the whole thing just caves in on itself and when they end up having to create a new game? There won't be nearly as much support for it after everything that they've been doing here. Destiny will continue on with all the drug addicts who can't find the willpower to put it down. Its the sad truth.
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My sentiments exactly, they came in and forced hours of downloads under the guise of offering us some new games in crucible to trial and tampered with the reward system and locked a lot of things, they reward you with level 40 gear for any vanguard, crucible or faction levels completed. I don't see why they had to treat us like mindless monkeys that they could entice or herd to the paying queue, they should have respected their consumers intelligence and left it exactly how it was UNTIL the purchase was made.
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4 RespuestasEditado por Hecate: 10/15/2015 11:51:37 AMHe only touches on something I've noticed about Destiny: part of its addictiveness is that you're always working towards a whole bunch of little goals, so you're always just a smidgen away from completing [b][i]something.[/i][/b] And when you complete that, you're just a smidgen away from completing the next thing.
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You can ask for refunds from Sony or M$ for any digital content, if you'd like some advice on the matter, i'm here to help. Educating people about this is really the only means we have to fight back. In the end its up to the consumer to purchase content that feeds the beast or not. You're not alone.
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Excellent points, my hatred of Bungie grows daily!
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4 RespuestasBump!! Give it a month, and all you will see is how much TTK sucks on the forums... It's what happened with HoW. The first couple of weeks were nothing but fanbois, praising Bungie for PoE instead of a raid, just for them to later harshly criticize it.
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Bungie has gone completely daft.
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11 RespuestasWell as beautifully written as that was You are overanalysing this way too much It's just a game : simple as that I would recommend moving on to a game that doesn't make you question the psychological effect it's having on your brain
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2 RespuestasWow never play an MMO you'd kill yourself. Here's a cookie. Now sit down and shut up because I am too busy playing TTK to care. =) ( I am joking but seriously if you have issues like this NEVER play an MMO)
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.....you're still just a rat in a cage?
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Good post. Very well said.
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4 RespuestasDespite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage And someone will say what is lost can never be saved Sorry had to, that song is the first thing that came to mind when I read the title. But in all honesty I enjoy this games even with its faults. I do however feel for all the y1 leftovers, it's not right that they created a paywall between the content you've already paid for and can no longer play. I decided to purchase the TTK, now whether TTK was worth $40 dollars is another question. For me yes, $40 for 100's of hours that I'll put into this expansion I'd say is a descent investment. Shit I pay $10+ to see a movie that's 90 minutes long. In short, it's not right y1 guardians are being forced into buying the expansion, but on the other hand if you wish to continue playing the game purchase it and have fun. If TTK isn't for you, I'd suggest moving on to another game and wait for them to address the pay wall or for TTK to drop in price.
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I'm still just a rat in a cage.
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1 RespuestaTL;DR: ...you are still just a rat in a cage?
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1 RespuestaEditado por ValorRob: 9/26/2015 7:00:32 AM...I'm still just a rat in a CAAAAAAAAGGGGEEEE!!!!!
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Well put
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Reading this post confirmed it in my mind, there's a solid case to be had here against what they've done.
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I agree and have also left because of these reasons. It's funny to me how fanboys can say it's about the money, which it is not. The original game that I purchased is not the same, it's stripped of content that I once played.
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This sums up my experience almost exactly. So sad that it's come to this for so many :(
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1 Respuesta...i am still just a rat in a cage. [spoiler]wink wink to those who get it. [/spoiler]
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Bump. Excellent thread, thanks for the link to the article.