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12/1/2011 3:23:35 PM
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ODST's or Spartan's? Rivalry in & out of the Halo universe.
I'm seeing this more and more in members post's and their general attitude and preference towards one or 'tother, which eerily mirrors the in universe conflict.
You should well know the Helljumpers from the 105th and Halsey's test tube titans don't get along. One side being the best of the best in coventional military structure. The ODST's having earned their titles with blood/sweat/more blood, while the Spartans being selected at birth and molded and engineered into the ultimate warrior, perfected by the aid of technology.
The lofty heights of the Spartan myth, no doubt attained through cunning UNSC propaganda and ONI folklore, and fed by the spoonfull to the gaping mouths of the willing populace.
Tempered with the grit and determination, the spilt blood and the battle scars, the broken bond of the fallen brother's of ODST'S. Hard earned, hard lived, and hard fought, fighting tooth and nail in the monolithic shadow of ONI's chosen few.
As it stands the bitterness and jealousy of the ODST's is well founded, misplaced though it may be, as most would be sympathetic to their plight.
"Folks need Heroe's cheif, give 'em hope."
Halsey's Spartan's the proverbial superweapons, the tip of the galactic spear, and zenith of military prowess. Time spent is time bought, the children of Reach, emotionally stunted though they may be the same cannot be said for their physical forms.
A Demi-god like silhouette paired with the mind of a genius, a near perfect example of 'humanity'. The boy's and girl's of Reach 'live' training, breathe tactics and stratagem, and sleep on a bed of knowledge. They grow under the sun of military absolutism, and indoctronisation, never lowering their guard in a fight or otherwise.
Field tested, they swell and coalesce in the heat of battle how can anything 'natural' truly compete? The goal of the 'experiment' to create hero's, now achieved. The cutting edge weaponry employed by the Spartan's, gifted to them, by their makers, effiently weilded, an extension of their bodies, literally.
The Hero's of humanity, are they in a position to represent humanity if they are devoid of it? The Spartan's general disregard for the ODST's is only equaled by their yearning for battle and their inability to avoid or walk away from a fight.
They are disparate from humanity yet also perhaps the only ones who are in a perfect position to defend it, for it but not of it, protectors from afar.
So Seven7h column, what say you?
Where does your allegiance truly lie?
(I kind of got carried away, I do apologise and suggest you wear suitable head protection for the proverbial wall of text you may run into. Thanks for reading, really.)
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Yes, but ODST's aren't particularly wordy about it. They don't hate Spartans, they just consider them "glory hounds" who steal all the credit.
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So then, it's clearly evident, the answer to it all remains: More ODST exposure, period. I myself would be satiated with more novels and comics like Helljumper for example, but in game would clearly be superior.
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Spartans are following orders. They did not choose to become super-soldiers, they were merely plucked involuntarily out of their own homes at a young age. For the ODSTs to have a rivalry with them is unprofessional. Though to be honest I have not seen many ODSTs in the books or games that have demonstrated an outright hatred of spartans.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jak O Bladez [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jak O Bladez There's no 'rivalry' between them, there was one ODST who held a grudge and he just happened to be in charge during one of the books. [/quote] The Flood Dirt The Babysitter All showed ODSTs in contempt with the spartans for "replacing them". I am positive i could find more, less detailed examples in the lore.[/quote] Evolutions and Legends aren't canon. And if you want to judge every single odst based on one character in The Flood, you might as well say that every black person in the Halo universe caries a spartan lazer and cannot be killed.[/quote] Um, no, where are you getting that from? Everything published by Bungie/343i/Microsoft in relation to Halo is canon unless otherwise stated or a higher source contradicts the information. None of that however is the case with Evolutions or Legends, both are completely canon, just as much as the games or any of the books. The only part of Halo Legends that isn't canon is the episode "Odd One Out", and while the stories within Legends are completely canon, the visuals shouldn't be taken as absolute or concrete fact as their is a lot of artistic license in it. It's pretty well established that ODSTs don't particularly like Spartans and have a pretty large rivalry with them. Spartans either don't know about how the ODSTs consider themselves rivals, or they just don't care, so the rivalry/dislike is rather one-sided. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Grey101 How would any ODST have more "field experience" when the spartans have been doing ops in their teens?[/quote] It's a fair point, the ODSTs have been alive a lot longer and serving in military campaigns longer than the Spartans were. At least when the Spartans first actively started being deployed. By this point the Spartans should have infinitely more combat experience and what-not, but when they were first being the deployed the ODSTs would have had more field experience, because the Spartans hadn't actually been deployed on any real missions yet. [Edited on 12.14.2011 5:24 AM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] J0man1 Probably differing perspectives on the fiction/canon, and/or exposure to the novels and the like. There is one, perhaps exaggerated, but it does exist. Just like real world military, camaraderie and competition.[/quote] I guess it's easy to believe that there isn't one. If taken from the point of view from a Spartan, they don't know about it, or simply don't care. It's rare that you get the point of view from an ODST.
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While it is true that [i]a few[/i] ODSTs hate Spartans, there are equally, if not more, that are glad for their presence. I'm sorry- but even after reading and rereading Dirt, the Spartan training regime makes it look like bathtime. The equipment? While it does give the Spartans an advantage, just the augmentations alone make them superior to ODSTs. The Experience? They killed somewhere between two and five marines (I can't remember the exact number, it's been a while since I've read FoR) before they hit puberty. Upon that, they took out a number of Rebel installations before First Contact with the Covenant. Seriously, while the ODSTs are great on the normal, human level, Spartans are - literally - better in every way.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Xerzaph Where on earth are these people getting that "there is no rivalry"?...[/quote] Probably differing perspectives on the fiction/canon, and/or exposure to the novels and the like. There is one, perhaps exaggerated, but it does exist. Just like real world military, camaraderie and competition. [Edited on 12.13.2011 10:43 PM PST]
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Where on earth are these people getting that "there is no rivalry"?...
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jak O Bladez [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jak O Bladez There's no 'rivalry' between them, there was one ODST who held a grudge and he just happened to be in charge during one of the books. [/quote] The Flood Dirt The Babysitter All showed ODSTs in contempt with the spartans for "replacing them". I am positive i could find more, less detailed examples in the lore.[/quote] Evolutions and Legends aren't canon. And if you want to judge every single odst based on one character in The Flood, you might as well say that every black person in the Halo universe caries a spartan lazer and cannot be killed.[/quote] They are indeed canon. Where is your proof they aren't?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jak O Bladez [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jak O Bladez There's no 'rivalry' between them, there was one ODST who held a grudge and he just happened to be in charge during one of the books. [/quote] The Flood Dirt The Babysitter All showed ODSTs in contempt with the spartans for "replacing them". I am positive i could find more, less detailed examples in the lore.[/quote] Evolutions and Legends aren't canon. And if you want to judge every single odst based on one character in The Flood, you might as well say that every black person in the Halo universe caries a spartan lazer and cannot be killed.[/quote] Your a joke. Explain to me how evolutions isn't canon when i see a 343 logo on the back? not to mention they made many of the stories into motion comics. Legends is canon other than "Odd One Out", don't pay too much attention to the visuals. Both are canon and you are wrong unless i can see a source saying they aren't canon.
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The Rookie would get along with the chief just fine.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jak O Bladez There's no 'rivalry' between them, there was one ODST who held a grudge and he just happened to be in charge during one of the books. [/quote] The Flood Dirt The Babysitter All showed ODSTs in contempt with the spartans for "replacing them". I am positive i could find more, less detailed examples in the lore.[/quote] Evolutions and Legends aren't canon. And if you want to judge every single odst based on one character in The Flood, you might as well say that every black person in the Halo universe caries a spartan lazer and cannot be killed.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Xerzaph ODST's would have years of experience working their way up the ranks as marines, along with further experience as ODST's. ODST's are either prodigy's, or men who have been flawless marines for a very long time. As I said, Spartans are young.[/quote] Have you ever read a book? Do you know how old Spartans are? I thought this was all basic knowledge?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jak O Bladez There's no 'rivalry' between them, there was one ODST who held a grudge and he just happened to be in charge during one of the books. [/quote] The Flood Dirt The Babysitter All showed ODSTs in contempt with the spartans for "replacing them". I am positive i could find more, less detailed examples in the lore.
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yeah, the rivalry is little, and they got along when -blam!- hit the fan too, but really most don't care.
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There's no 'rivalry' between them, there was one ODST who held a grudge and he just happened to be in charge during one of the books. All of this rivalry nonsense is just something the less involved script writers used as dialogue filler in things like Legends and Halo Wars.
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You need to read "The Fall of Reach".
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ODST's would have years of experience working their way up the ranks as marines, along with further experience as ODST's. ODST's are either prodigy's, or men who have been flawless marines for a very long time. As I said, Spartans are young.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 How would any ODST have more "field experience" when the spartans have been doing ops in their teens?[/quote] They wouldn't. Not compared with S-IIs anyway.
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How would any ODST have more "field experience" when the spartans have been doing ops in their teens?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] superiorarsenal Equal or more training? ODSTs are not trained for 8 years straight. S-IIs are also trained HARDER in that 8 years. They actually train ON ODSTs some of the time. Arbiter's don't volunteer, they are high-ranking Elites trying to earn back honor with high-risk, high-importance, suicide missions. And as for the suit part, ask the ODSTs that fought 14-year old Master Chief, they in no way rivaled him.[/quote] Wow! That's not what I meant at all! Forget about the training, I meant field experience, which is obviously more beneficial than simply training. ODST's would in most cases have more field experience than a Spartan. (mainly because Spartans are so young) As for the arbiter part, I only meant the suicidal mission part. ODST's do what no other troop besides a Spartan could do, that they are volunteers is irrelevant. As for the suit... Well, I admit defeat, I forgot about that particular situation, and, I thought I might add, I couldn't ask them if I wanted to, they're all dead! ^_^ well played sir. *salutes* [Edited on 12.12.2011 5:22 AM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Xerzaph [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SEAL Sniper 9 "Tube Titans" made me lol. Anyway, the SPARTANS are obviously better because they've been training since they were 6, have been augmented, and have MJOLNIR armor. ODSTs don't have the fancy armor or augmentations. However, I like the ODSTs more. They are the unsung heroes. In the war, they have pulled a lot of weight and, like I said before, they don't have the armor or the augmentations or even the extensive training. If you look at it from that perspective, who knows? Maybe the ODSTs are better. [/quote] You don't give the ODST's enough credit. Each one likely did equal or more training then a Spartan, unfortunately, all ODST's are volunteers, because their job is suicidal, they're basically the Arbiters of the UNSC. If a spartan wasn't in their suit, an ODST may well rival them.[/quote] I'm on the side of the ODSTs, but your taking it too far. Equal or more training? I doubt the ODST volunteers decided to train when they were 6. And, that training, makes U.S. Ranger school look like a picnic. Master Chief took down 3 veterans ODSTs when he was a teenager without armor. So, armor doesn't matter either. But, like I said, I'm on the side of the ODSTs. Despite what I stated above, they are great soldiers and deserve a lot of credit.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Xerzaph [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SEAL Sniper 9 "Tube Titans" made me lol. Anyway, the SPARTANS are obviously better because they've been training since they were 6, have been augmented, and have MJOLNIR armor. ODSTs don't have the fancy armor or augmentations. However, I like the ODSTs more. They are the unsung heroes. In the war, they have pulled a lot of weight and, like I said before, they don't have the armor or the augmentations or even the extensive training. If you look at it from that perspective, who knows? Maybe the ODSTs are better. [/quote] You don't give the ODST's enough credit. Each one likely did equal or more training then a Spartan, unfortunately, all ODST's are volunteers, because their job is suicidal, they're basically the Arbiters of the UNSC. If a spartan wasn't in their suit, an ODST may well rival them.[/quote] Equal or more training? ODSTs are not trained for 8 years straight. S-IIs are also trained HARDER in that 8 years. They actually train ON ODSTs some of the time. Arbiter's don't volunteer, they are high-ranking Elites trying to earn back honor with high-risk, high-importance, suicide missions. And as for the suit part, ask the ODSTs that fought 14-year old Master Chief, they in no way rivaled him.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SEAL Sniper 9 "Tube Titans" made me lol. Anyway, the SPARTANS are obviously better because they've been training since they were 6, have been augmented, and have MJOLNIR armor. ODSTs don't have the fancy armor or augmentations. However, I like the ODSTs more. They are the unsung heroes. In the war, they have pulled a lot of weight and, like I said before, they don't have the armor or the augmentations or even the extensive training. If you look at it from that perspective, who knows? Maybe the ODSTs are better. [/quote] You don't give the ODST's enough credit. Each one likely did equal or more training then a Spartan, unfortunately, all ODST's are volunteers, because their job is suicidal, they're basically the Arbiters of the UNSC. If a spartan wasn't in their suit, an ODST may well rival them.
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Great post Dutchman, very articulate. I appreciate dissection. I gave a more agressive approach to the ODST's defence merely because I believe that they get the short end of the proverbial stick, and are much more underepresented then the much revered spartan's, in and out of the universe, as it were. May I also assume your preference is for the spartan's no doubt? I actually prefer the spartan's myself, strictly due to their increased exposure in the games and the fiction, so I know much more about them, and understand them as a result. As I see it the ODST's are yet to be fleshed out enough, but I await the day when they are. ODST 2 anyone? etc. "But you took that end, and you - well, you took it. And that's - Well, I guess that's somethin'." (As for the stick that was given, couldn't resist)
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Hey in my oppinion both UNSC fighters both go through alot. ODST: Falling into the battlefield. Spartan: Being kidnapped at Childhood and trained for years. Both sides are equally arguable. The ODST's think they have the great stuff and the training, they almost think they are all that. As i played ODST it seemed that the more expierience, the more you are very ignorant. As of the spartans, they are in a rivalry because all of them are great. But the rivalry ends when they find out noble 6 and Master Chief Have the Hyper lethal. So i have to go with the ODST because all of them have the guts and glory, but the rivalry is very arguable. So the ODST know they are all the same except for rank and Experience. So ODST is who i side with.
