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Edited by Mister Wrecked:
3/6/2025 10:40:58 PM
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What are you trying to accomplish with the smoke changes? (A rant about how Bungie seems to put little though into ability adjustments for all classes)
It feels like your only goal with the smoke changes was to get people to shut up about smoke in PVP. This is theme with ability updates in the PVP sandbox - people complain about over tuned abilities, often rightly so, then you nuke them into being a useless piece of kit. No nuance applied. Seemingly no critical thought applied. No care for class identity applied.
Hunter smoke is currently over tuned the PVP sandbox, but the changes incoming will effectively make it a nigh-useless ability. It provides weaken, very short duration visual obscurement, and a tiny bit of tick damage. The weaken is potentially useful, the rest is effectively useless in PVP 99% of the time.
You all should decide what the identity is: is it a disruption tool [b]OR[/b] distraction tool. Then make it good at that one thing. If you want disruption movement and visual impairment like we have now makes sense. If you want distraction then revert the timer and radar ping changes from some time ago.
Stop giga nerfing abilities for all classes in response to abilities being out of band or players complaining about them. Apply a little [i]actual critical thought and developer nuance[/i] to adjusting abilities so whatever they do fills a specific role in the classes kit. Stop taking the option that requires the least thought or work. Surely you are capable of respecting class identity [i]without[/i] making abilities too powerful.
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I just wish they’d touch invis so that when clutching your not completely off radar while it’s ups
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It pings the radar. It is currently an easy win button. Burn it.
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1 ReplyEdited by Lich: 3/8/2025 3:06:44 AMOhh no, now you have to use gun skill over free engagement wins. Smoke did too much for a melee, and no other melee had much utility. Especially being tied a dodge cooldown so you could dodge near a wall and get a free melee back. Pre nerf smoke! Blinds, disorients, weakens, slows, suppressed abilities, restricted movement, applied damage over time, granted two different versions of wall hacks, hindred players jump. Has radar minupulation, took away radar, has area denial, can stick to guardians, had lingering effects even if you escaped the smoke, smoke clown created an obstruction hard to see through. Smoke could also grant invis to yourself and allies. And further stacked with exotics creating more additional abilities. The fact you and people are complaining about an actual balance pass to smoke and you guys lose your -blam!-. You're all nothing without smoke holding your hand.
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Slows, weakens, disorient, damages, radar manipulation and grants invisibility Yeah bro smokes are not OP bro trust me bro
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19 RepliesEdited by ForeverLaxx: 3/7/2025 5:37:50 AMYeah... I was reading that change and immediately thought "so what's the point of Smoke, then?" They barely function as a minor distraction thanks to all the whining from people who can't stop burning a hole through their radar with their eyes, and now they won't function as a combat disruption tool either thanks to all the whining from people with zero object permanence. Allowing the use of movement abilities on top of that now just makes the ability a smaller, more ignorable Duskfield (and Duskfields are already ignorable as they are). Now they're only "good" for applying Weaken, which is basically useless in a PvP setting outside of trying to proc things like Stylish, which weapons with Withering Gaze already do better. People stopped using Prismatic Hunter after it got kneecapped multiple times, so players went back to using Void as it's practically the only subclass Hunter had that offered anything in the way of a neutral game (at the cost of a comparatively weak offering of Supers). So now what are Hunters supposed to do? EDIT: And what I find truly bizarre in all this is that this ability was never once talked about in any serious capacity throughout the many years Destiny 2 existed, but the moment Prismatic drops suddenly Smoke Melee has "always been busted?" What world did the rest of you live in during the years leading up to these multiple nerfs to Void in the last couple of years? Is it a result of every other semi-viable path for Hunters getting shotgunned in an alley, leaving us to crawl to Void in the hope that anything at all would work, and now that most Hunters are using it, the increased appearance of Smokes is too much for your monkey brain to handle? I seriously don't get it.
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Destiny is where pvp players who suck at pvp play 😂😂.. True Story
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They are neutering it because they purposefully released an overturned aspect and people cried about it. Something will always be broken - just move onto the next one.
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I think the whole point is to limit how oppressive it was. You can't tell me you didn't see this coming, especially with the new aspect.
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1 ReplyIt did too much for having basically no cooldown. Not to mention it could be instantly refunded by gamblers dodge
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As a Hunter player, what made smokes honestly broken wasn't even smoke grenades but adding Scatter grenades to nightstalker. Whoever thought that combo was fine is just... lol other than I mean just avoid the smokes. On the prowl is really, really strong too.
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With the fact that spectral blades sucks as a super, and I really don’t care to use tether in a competitive mode, paired with the fact that smoke bomb is getting nerfed like this… THERES LITERALLY NO POINT IN RUNNING VOID IN CRUCIBLE ANYMORE! IM OUT!
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1 ReplyI mean, that became pretty apparent with the wars of dawn nerfs. It got nerfed despite the fact it was doing its job, then caught a couple nerfs towards well to, idk, make them seem less biased? Then they dug it's corpse up and shot it again by making it just a big Bastion barricade. It's the reason why I genuinely think bungie regrets having ward of dawn and well of radiance.
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So long as they keep making changes in only PVP I’m happy, they can make my smoke bomb heal the enemies for all I care. Crucible is the worst multiplayer out there
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7 RepliesIt is because smokes were the best melee in the game overall and better than most grenades in the game and with a cooldown of about 25 seconds with dodges and invis making it a unfun experience to go against even one with 3 being slow and miserable
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3 RepliesEdited by 《《 ⒻⒶⒶⒷ 》》: 3/7/2025 12:44:21 PMI'm so done with the massive amount of smokes everywhere in pvp. This is a great change.
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It might be a little overboard but at this point it is so well deserved. Void and prismatic hunters are without a doubt the most annoying people to play in PvP. Void has been for years and prismatic more recently. All they do is spam ability after ability, camp, and crutch their special weapons. Let them actually fight with a primary weapon face to face if they even remember how. Hunters barely ever get any significant nerfs while warlocks and titans are constantly getting nerfed. Let hunters get neutered for once.
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So there are two main things that I like to use smoke bombs for - 1. Baiting - A. People with heavy to waste their heavy by shooting it at a smoke hidden around a corner. B. Baiting shot-gunners/voopers to come around a corner and waste their special ammo shooting at what they thought was a player. 2. Slowing - A. Shotgun/glaive apes that are charging me. B. People that are chasing me. As I run, I'll turn a corner and drop a smoke, slowing them as they come around the corner, to allow me to either ambush them, or to get away (especially from supers chasing me). With the new changes completely killing option 2, there's no reason to not roll back the duration changes of smoke to make option 1 more viable, imo.
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I hear you. They seem to do that with everything they tune- if it’s a little too good or fun to use they don’t just tune it down a bit- they neuter it completely. A perfect example of this is the starfire protocol WL fusion nade build. They hit it so hard it’s never been used again. They hit anarchy so hard it’s never used unless it’s a GL or arc themed season. Recluse was the same way. It’s like they just can’t be surgical with their balancing.
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The brain dead approach they take to nerfing overused and current meta stuff is the main reason ALOT of my friends quit. To them it felt like bungie would rather keep punishing players for playing a certain way and only want to extend the carrot on the stick anyway they can. For me this approach killed build crafting because why make a strong build knowing it’s gonna be nerfed. Bungie just can’t seem to grasp power fantasy is fun.
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[quote]Apply a little [i]actual critical thought and developer nuance[/i][/quote] They don't know how.
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Appeasment. Nothing more. Nothing less. Your first sentence is 100% correct.
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I agree that they should pick a design for it and commit to making it good at only that, but I do think the ability will still be good. It is still: -Radar manip -blind -DoT -Radar removal -Weaken on demand -Access to team wide invis if using aspect -Like all hunter melees, essentially has a 10 second cooldown because dodge. It won’t be an auto-win anymore but it still disrupts an enemy fairly significantly.
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5 RepliesEvery time I read stuff like this, my conclusion is that people are willfully blind. It’s did WAY too much and is basically on demand because of Gambler’s Dodge. The endgame of these nerfs is Gambler’s Dodge. It’s been a broken ability for the life of the game.
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17 RepliesPVP has been terrible since the start of the franchise. What do you expect.
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1 ReplyBungie nerfs on highest use popularity and players complaints, Hunters will always be nerfed in PvP. Because Bungie focuses all Hunters new things on PVP. 🤔 How about some PVE Hunter Bungie please..... Problem is the next Hunter thing will pop up and 40% of the PVP player base will move to it causing complaints, wait til Solar Tommy Matchbook Hunter takes over in PVP, the complaints will roll in. Idk, maybe make Warlocks a little better in PvP to sway some of that 40% of Hunters ,Titans don't need any more help in PVP atm.
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Edited by TwigTwig: 3/7/2025 3:47:59 PMI've mained tether since it launched in D1 and I'm happy it's being nerfed, but yes, bungie are terrible at balancing. They overtune things that were mid but usable, and then nerf it into the ground so it becomes unusable. I imagine invis will get a similar hit too soon, and my once usable class will become noticeably worse than it was before they tried to 'fix' it. Classic Bungie.
