I find people cry a lot about the thorn, I agree the thorn is a great gun for the crucible, however it is a great gun when used in the right situation and does take a fair bit of skill, it can easily be best by last word, or at long distance red death or mida multi tool, also if you know someone is using the thorn there are tactics you can do to put the advantage back in your court.. I think it's dumb that people find something that works and right away people ask for nurfs I think if anything we should un mutt auto rifles and un nurf the vex and let all the powerful guns do what the do best..