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1/8/2014 7:05:48 PM
29
What's wrong with indoctrinating a population?
So long as the population is kept in a state of happiness and relative health.
Consider this: there is a State which indoctrinates the young via the education system. It is an authoritarian neo-Fascist State which presents itself as the highest and most important entity, and people are afforded little privacy. Those who show themselves immune to indoctrination (psychopaths, intellectuals, free thinkers) are conscripted to do government work in accordance with their capacity. The economy is developed, and the quality of life is slightly higher than that of the United States. The State commits itself to non-interventionism but, while not involving itself in wars unless necessary, glorifies public service and the good of the community over the individual. The people are happy, but people who step out of line are often brutally punished.
What is wrong with a form of government like this? Liberty really can't be factored into this, I think, because the populace knows nothing of liberty and has no reason to desire it extensively. If you think this is merely immoral, you have to give a reason.
[u]Don't make comparisons with the likes of North Korea or the USSR, I don't believe they were similar to this. National Socialist Germany, with the exception of foreign policy and the inclusion of racial discrimination, could be a suitable comparison but the fictional government of Brave New World is probably closest.[/u]
If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
English
#Offtopic
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[url=http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law]-godwinslaw!-[/url] germany banned all guns.How is that acceptable
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1 ответWhen the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
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I was going to make a controversial sort of thread earlier, but now I don't remember what it was, this thread just reminds me that I was going to do it.
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2 отв.Изменено (The Tempun II): 1/8/2014 11:49:08 PMNevermind, troll thread.
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I don't think there's really anything really wrong with what you described. But this is just "on paper" so to speak.
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what if u harm the population while they're happy?
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2 отв.This is clearly a troll thread.
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[quote]So long as the population is kept in a state of happiness and relative health.[/quote] Not if the society harms other people and societies. [quote]brutally punished.[/quote] Depends on the severity of the crime, but this can be damaging to a societies happiness. A society based upon fear is not an enjoyable one. Also, indoctrination usually involves lying, manipulation, and special interests from the rulers. These factors make it highly unlikely that any society with indoctrinated individuals will be happy. You have a point, but I believe the best kind of society is one that does not hinder the truth.
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2 отв.I suppose if one looks at it from a utilitarian standpoint and citizens were well taken care of then yes, indoctrination and totalitarian rule would be perfectly fine. I think this is why a lot of people consider pure utilitarian ethics invalid.
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i have a feeling this is bait
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1 ответHave you seen Man of Steel? I ask cause I have an argument that uses the Krytonian race as an example and I don't have a Soviet era equivalent to use :3
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3 отв.The value of liberty is intrinsic; it doesn't derive its value from the perspective of the individual. This reminds me of Verbatim's anti-natalism arguments, where not having a life to suffer from is better than the alternative.
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18 отв.Mein Kampf really ought to come with an attached warning label for gullible people.
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4 отв.[quote]content society[/quote] A) i love you for this thread. B) happiness as a goal [i]will[/i] result in an elimination of free thought. even simple inductive reasoning proves it: Assumption 1: individuality leads to opinion/idealism A2: opinion/idealism form the basis for conflict Conclusion 1(A1+A2): individuality forms the basis for conflict A3: free thought and will allows for personal evaluation based on biases A4: personal evaluation allows for opinion and idealism C2(A3+A4): free thought and will leads to opinion and idealism. C3(A1+A2+C2): free will leads to individuality, thus leading to conflict. A5: happiness, satisfaction, and true peace between parties requires consensus. C4(A5+C3): happiness, satisfaction, and peace requires elimination of conflict, and therefore individuality and free thinking. essentially to truly have a content society, we'd have to eliminate conflict, stagnate all growth, and force order. either that or we make everyone the same. C) but, as the laws of chaos and history in general make clear: we can [i]never[/i] control a system like extreme fascism/communism would try to. applying simple order to dynamic systems is impossible (citation: jurassic park XD). "life finds a way." what i'm saying is that you're right in saying that a content society will require the kind of indoctrination and universal acceptance that you're describing. brave new world is basically a 350 page study into that. however, what i'm also saying is that the kind of society you're describing is mathematically impossible in nature. D) basically, you're right. but it doesn't matter.
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1 ответEverything, not only the world loses free will but eventually you'll have someone that over comes the indoctrination. That person later starts to question life and the domino effect occurs.
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Because you touch yourself at night.
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4 отв.Because free thinking and individuality are not very encouraged in those type of governments. And that's not good for people.
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3 отв.Instantly thought of "A brave new World"
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What does indoctrinating mean?
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5 отв.Liberty > Happiness/Security
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10 отв.There IS one fair comparison to North Korea, in that the citizenry do not know better. They actually believe the Kim Dynasty is protecting them through a global catastrophe. Now, responses will be tied to how people value free will. That's a personal judgement call. My opinion is that I wouldn't want to exist in such a system, but I wouldn't object to its existence for those who did choose to be in it.
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2 отв.I thought of 1984 while reading this...
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4 отв.Government will be able to get away with so much shit because the people have been brainwashed so deeply
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3 отв.Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. We cant trust those put in power to not abuse the system in some way. It will happen every time.
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2 отв.Think for yourself, question authority and all that jazz.
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2 отв.[quote]So long as the population is kept in a state of happiness and relative health.[/quote] It creates a closed system that doesn't grow or expand and robs people of free will through ignorance and placation. Not to mention that eventually, closed systems stuck in their own world will get smashed when something bigger and foreign comes along and decides to step on it.
