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Изменено (Hypochondriast):
4/4/2019 5:45:05 PM
70
Pinnacle HC Rebalancing Proposition
Bungie,
I am a committed player who has the privilege of playing many hours of Destiny 2 per week. The majority of my time is spent in the Crucible, and in having gone through the gauntlet of the Competitive playlist, I earned my NF and have accrued 6k+ kills with it. With this experience, I wanted to pass along an idea I had for rebalancing the pinnacle hand cannons.
The main reason I am going to be suggesting a solution is because I see many players claiming that neither Luna's Howl or Not Forgotten have a place in the sandbox. I disagree with that, BUT I do see how these two pinnacle weapons have caused frustration and I have seen that you are looking for/collecting feedback.
How would I rebalance the Pinnacle Hand Cannons? The first thing would be to remain mindful that these are in fact [u]pinnacle[/u] rewards that require a great deal of time investment and effort. Unfortunately, some do pay their way around it but that is besides the point. My point is that if these weapons are adjusted, they are adjusted without betraying the players who earned them. Now, I will be suggesting [u]ONE[/u] individual change to each weapon.
Please read carefully:
Luna's Howl: Keep the base stats of the weapon as they are, but change the nature of Magnificent Howl. I believe Luna's Howl should require [u]three[/u] successive headshots to secure a kill in optimal time.
Not Forgotten: Keep base stats as they are AND keep Magnificent Howl as it is (two headshots/one body), but make the weapon EXOTIC.
These changes do so much. LH will still have an edge while NF not only gains more defined separation for it's difference in Glory Rank but it places a loud-out restriction on the player for costing the exotic slot.
Thank you for reading.
[b]Edit[/b]: Adding two extensions under this edit after all the discussion yesterday. [u] I'm not even going to fix typos in my OP.[/u]
1) Genuinely, thank you to everybody whose contributed to the discussion positively and constructively. Even if you disagree. 🙂👍
2) My point is about [u]tailoring the weapons individually[/u] for the difference between the accessibility of LH and NF.
We can all see that there are more LH in the game than NF, and by that fact, more people getting killed in game by a 2head/1body shot pattern. See the issue? Separating LH from the fact that its Magnificent Howl functions the same as NF, and then making NF exotic, makes it so that both are [u]defined achievements[/u] with [u]defined capability[/u] while keeping their Pinnacle status.
I believe my suggestions would honor the achievement of both while implementing [u]just enough[/u] of a change to see a shift in the Crucible
Than you for reading the edit.
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I remember when we had the same meta for 9months in d1, atm we have had the same meta for 7months. We are repeating history. imo we should have shifting meta's every 1-2months to keep pvp fresh. Yes it will piss ppl off, but its impossible to make everyone happy.
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Destiny2 DUST ROCK, LUNA's HOWL or NF, WARDCLIFF DUST ROCK, LUNA's HOWL or NF, WARDCLIFF DUST ROCK, LUNA's HOWL or NF, WARDCLIFF DUST ROCK, LUNA's HOWL or NF, WARDCLIFF DUST ROCK, LUNA's HOWL or NF, WARDCLIFF inPVP
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1 ответall agree
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1 ответA simple solution would be to let lunas howl be attainable through regular crucible rather than competitive and let not forgotten be attained from competitive. Simple solution , problem solved.
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1 ответThat was a long post for a simple answer to the problem assuming you believe that LH and NF are different weapons. Make LH availble through the valor ranks like Broadsword was. Keep NF in Comp. Don't change anything else. Taking bloom off other HC are a different argument (one that I agree with BTW).
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4 отв.Изменено (Erijian): 4/4/2019 8:07:29 PMOr we remove Not Forgotten from the game and turn it into an ornament for Luna's Howl. Then they could allow Luna's Howl to roll some random perks aside from Magnificent Howl once you hit Legend rank. If you already own Not Forgotten you get a special emblem that tracks kills with Luna's Howl.
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3 отв.Just make Luna’s a 140 and Not Forgotten Exotic. Boom, fixed.
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Chill man, they are easy to counter. I can smoke Luna’s users with last perdition.
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100% agree.
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15 отв.So people want high skill-gap guns nerfed so they can mindlessly spray their Recluse in QP with minimal effort, phenomenal.
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2 отв.No. People did one of two things to get these guns. 1) played extraordinarily in comp to obtain them (what most people did) or 2) paid through the nose to get them (won't help these folks anyway). These guns are hard and time consuming to obtain. They are truly Pinnacle weapons. They should be big dog daddy guns. Now should they be equippable in quick play? That is up for debate. Perhaps comp and IB only. As an owner of all pinnacle weapons but The Mountaintop, I'd be ok with this. The Recluse is my main PvE gun, I don't even use it in the Crucible. Luna's is a great PvP gun but there are better guns on the whole. Same with Not Forgotten. If you are dying over and over to them you probably need to adjust your playstyle. I don't have a great K/D, nor do I care to, I'm an aggressive player. Shotgun apes love me lol. LH and NF kill me all the time too. It isn't because they're broken, it's because I'm careless. If more people would admit this the whole thing would go away.
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im not sure thats a big enough nerf to not forgotten. its drastically out of line with other weapons.
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1 ответ6k on a nf... please use a different gun... try an auto rifle 😂
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2 отв.The problem is a design flaw with Destiny designed to shrink the skill game, even in D1. They introduced strong bullet magnetism/hit box size to counter input delay on vsync 30 fps. This is understandable and should be that way. They introduced very sharp tracking aim assist to help players track. It was too much for the better players, but helped the worse players aim as well. In order to shroud the aim assist, they added in sharp RNG recoil on your reticle, and recoil to your vision by kicking it to an angle. The recoil had to be far more than desired to cover the tracking aim assist, which is why they lowered recoil on PC since they removed tracking aim assist. Hand cannons were too strong, so they introduced bloom to limit and force paced shots. Now enter the 180 archtype. In the beginning they were not good. High ttk, so so aim assist, and other issues. They buffed aim assist across the board on them and lowered the ttk. The problem now is that 180s have Destiny's insane tracking aim assist, but very little recoil. This counters bloom and makes it easier than intended to hit rapid headshots. This makes 180s too good, and other handcannons a little too bad. The solution is for them to reduce bloom, tracking aim assist, and recoil on all weapons on console. Then all the same weapons good on pc would also be good on console. The difference is that you would be better thumbskill in general, which good players have and bad player don't. 180s would be good, but take skill to shoot, and all other weapons would be good too. It would eliminate the free three taps that console 180s have as well, which would lessen the nerf request.
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4 отв.How about between 0-2100 the Luna can drop randomly but very low percent chance but is guaranteed at 2100. Then the same for NF between 2100-5500. Good players will still get the gun and bad players can just grind the playlist till they get it. This will also populate the playlist cause it’s currently unplayable at top ranks.
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1 ответIf the other hand cannons were more manageable on console we'd just be able to outrange the damn things. 180s need some flinch and they'd be counterable. The main problem is that it's damn near impossible to flinch them with ANYTHING other than explosive rounds (and I hate using explosive rounds, I can't aim while being disoriented by mini explosions constantly in my reticle) Meanwhile, a stray shot at all other hand cannons will make the whole freaking gun move to the left or right 2 cm at the least. It's absurd when you notice the difference (trying out a void 150 hc really reminded me how bad it truly is) 180s aren't powerful due just to damage. They're powerful because they are beyond reliable. They're practically unmissable with basic aim skills (at surprising ranges, I might add) However, I would be fine with MH only applying to precision damage (thus making 3 taps only possible on consistant headshots) -- Also, autos need some love. They just need more damage. Something. Anything. They are beyond mediocre it's painful. I think autos need to have crit ttk .3 seconds lower than every other weapon. Why? Because you will almost NEVER hit all your crits. It can't be helped, it's ingrained in the nature of full auto weapons. You will always miss 1-2 rounds (either at the body or miss completely) at the least. I don't think Bungie accounts for this and that's why it's impossible to win well with autos. You can't outrange hand cannons with autos right now. Forget about pulses and scouts entirely. You can't out flinch 180 hand cannons at all and fast Rof pulses will melt you because it's really easy to crit even under fired. Autos don't come with explosive rounds so you can't flinch far off targets. Autos also suffer from being the absolute worst weapon in the peek a boo war due to needing constant damage for their ttks (while hand cannons have natural delays). It means a hand cannon can easily circumvent autos by peek a booing the heck out of them because autos can't DPS in the same window a hand cannon or pulse can. They have the least utility, least flinch potential, least range options (IMO), most consistent to miss with, and suffer from having no way to fight high DPS window tactics (peek a boo). They need a buff. Badly. I don't know where or how much, but they sure as f need it.
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3 отв.Изменено ($hirtless Captain Kirk): 4/4/2019 3:13:03 PM[quote]Bungie, I am a committed player who has the privilege of playing many hours of Destiny 2 per week. The majority of my time is spent in the Crucible, and in having gone through the gauntlet of the Competitive playlist, I earned my NF and have accrued 6k+ kills with it. With this experience, I wanted to pass along an idea I had for rebalancing the pinnacle hand cannons. The main reason I am going to be suggesting a solution is because I see many players claiming that neither Luna's Howl or Not Forgotten have a place in the sandbox. I disagree with that, BUT I do see how these two pinnacle weapons have caused frustration and I have seen that you are looking for/collecting feedback. How would I rebalance the Pinnacle Hand Cannons? The first thing would be to remain mindful that these are in fact [u]pinnacle[/u] rewards that require a great deal of time investment and effort. Unfortunately, some do pay their way around it but that is besides the point. My point is that if these weapons are adjusted, they are adjusted without betraying the players who earned them. Now, I will be suggesting [u]ONE[/u] individual change to each weapon. Please read carefully: Luna's Howl: Keep the base stats of the weapon as they are, but change the nature of Magnificent Howl. I believe Luna's Howl should require [u]three[/u] successive headshots to secure a kill in optimal time. Not Forgotten: Keep base stats as they are AND keep Magnificent Howl as it is (two headshots/one body), but make the weapon EXOTIC. These changes do so much. LH will still have an edge while NF not only gains more defined separation for it's difference in Glory Rank but it places a loud-out restriction on the player for costing the exotic slot. Thank you for reading.[/quote] Your base stats will all stay the same. Just expect it to be a 140 in the future ;) I just got my Luna. I earned it solo and it's the most overpowered shit. This thing versus my old Trust is stupid. I'll never use another Hand Cannon now. Anyone claiming these aren't overpowered are just protective of their crutch.
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To the OP - Well thought out ideas, whether I agree with them or not. However, the only change that "may" need to happen, is to require this gun to 3-Tap on "only" 3-Consecutive Headshots. Not 2-Headshot and 1-Body. This would require even greater skill and decision making on the part of the player wielding them, without devaluing them as powerful weapons at all. A 180 that can 3-Tap on a triple critical is still a force to be reckoned with. Heck, half the time I forget that you can "body" on the 3rd Shot after activating Magnificent Howl and I go for that 3rd Headshot anyways - WHICH, does indeed cause me to actually completely miss a lot of the time and totally screw up my TTK, since now I not only have a missed shot, but I've ruined Magnificent Howl. ...so I can see how requiring 3 Headshots would be perfectly balanced for this. Powerful still, but balanced. However, with a change like this - I would like to see Magnificent Howl's proc last an extra half a second...to give us a moment more to line up the 3rd Headshot.
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The range on the LH sucks balls. Use a scout and take them out. Stop calling for nerfs.
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3 отв.I spent my hard earned money on getting my nf and it’s going to be sad when it gets nerfed because all the crybabys.
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No, and -blam!- no. Your weapons need to be nerfed. I don’t care if they are pinnacle or not they should’ve never been introduced into the game because they damage the very thing Bungie said they were going for. Those weapons literally need to have the hardest stability nerf ever so they aren’t easy to land shots with
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1 ответPeople grinding sometimes hundreds of EP's to get the shotgun, that got nerfed. Redrix was nerfed. At some point your time investment always ends up meaning squat to Bungie. Same will go for HC's, they'll get nerfed. It's just the nature of what Bungie does. And when they do, don't blame the nerf-callers. Blame Bungie for being Bungie.
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Изменено (TJ_Dot): 4/4/2019 5:55:49 PMI suggested a possible change to Magnificant Howl the other day and ppl didn't take. Keeping NF as is, but exotic does seem like a fair trade. You don't get that and 2 pocket blade barrages at the same time.
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17 отв.No thank you. I earned my gun. It was not rng. Don’t devalue my investment.
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Изменено (Smough): 4/4/2019 3:08:24 PMWhile I think your changes are good ideas, I still don’t think that pvp pinnacle weapons should have existed in the first place. Your changes wouldn’t make a big difference in reality. 3 consecutive headshots with luna’s is extremely easy because it’s a 180 hand cannon which is really accurate, so it would only really hurt those who aren’t good and likely payed for it. Nf being an exotic is also a nice idea, but what does that change? Most of the time the only time I see people using an exotic weapon it’s a heavy, but we have 2 legendary lmg’s which are probably the best crucible heavy weapons. So again that wouldn’t make a huge difference as people would just use lmg’s instead. Honestly, as I implied in the beginning of my post (and many times before), the only way to “balance “ these weapons is to go back and time and stop pinnacle weapons from existing. There is no way to properly align these weapons in the current sandbox without ruining the point of grinding so much for them. It actually makes me angry in the way they are designed, amazing weapons meant to make good players dominate even more. If being better than a lot of players wasn’t enough, now they have weapons (that average player usually can’t get) that will utterly destroy every other weapon on top of it. So it’s just a big “-blam!- you” to average players. The idea of it baffles me and I’m surprised bungie went for such a route when crucible balance is something people often complain about. So yeah, I’m ranting a bit. But TL:DR your changes won’t make a difference and there’s no way to actually balance pinnacle weapons without the losing the whole point.
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2 отв.I don't mind or care how people got Lunas or Not Forgotten. More power to you. If you want more people to play crucible in general, there should be 2 pinnacle weapons for crucible, one for the quickplay list that has a quest like like redrixs, and a slightly more powerful version for comp for the really good players. As an average crucible player I know my limitations, and getting those guns could be possible but my time commitments would hinder it. I'm finally going for broadsword because although it's long, it's a doable accomplishment for me. As for nerfs or changes to these guns, they don't need any. Bungie just needs to stop nerfing viable options to them and buff others yo compete. I think as long as there are other options, people wouldn't be so salty to the crucible.
