Giving the top 10%, a top tier gun, is the opposite of balance. But, bungie wanted to kiss their asses and get them playing the game again. Easy wins make people happy. Nothing will change until people quit playing though. People are too addicted to quit playing.

And just like every other post about how stupid LH and NF the comments are LH and NF users saying "git gud" and "you mad cause you don't have it". Luna's Howl and Not Forgotten are a mistake and need removed from the game.

[quote]My point is that in the grand scheme of this game’s PvP community, the concept of a pinnacle weapon (better players getting a better gun to use against bad players) is negative for this game’s growth and longevity. New players aren’t gonna play this game get wrecked by Luna a lot, see the requirements for getting it themselves, and still be motivated to keep playing. New players don’t need a participation trophy, but they don’t need to be consistently and relentlessly slaughtered either.[/quote] This is simply wrong on 2 levels. 1. Seeing the strength of luna's will drive people to get it themselves. That's what motivated me. I didn't particularly like comp, but the reward of that gun kept me motivated. 2. New players are not being consistently and relentlessly slaughtered by luna's. They may be slaughtered by good crucible players in general, but luna's is only a drop in the bucket. Luna's is only demonized because not everyone can easily obtain the gun. Shotguns, god roll bygones, chattering bone, nova warp, blade barrage, shoulder charging titans, heavy ammo, ect are all frustrating for new crucible players not just luna's. There is so much broken stuff in the crucible it's not even funny. We are all arguing over 0.1 sec TTK differences like noobs actually give a shit about that. Or even know what TTK means for that matter.

Havoc Pigeon > Luna's Howl.

If the Last Word doesn’t two tap then we riot.

Both are just too good. These guns will remain meta for the remainder of d2 if they are not changed. Does anyone really want to be playing against the same 2 guns for that long?

So I’m bad because I have not forgotten? 😂😱

Another noob player complaining about lunas howl cause he can’t get it lmao

Anyone else remember how much people hated when the meta was Mida or GTFO? Then it went to Antiope and people didn't like being stuck with only one viable gun? But now it's Luna's or GTFO and people are real quick to defend it. Why is that? Because everyone had those guns. Even mediocre players could get Mida and wreck the good players. Good players don't like this and cried, got it changed. Then the noobs were able to get Antiope and keep up with THAT gun. Once again, the "good" players didn't like being on an even field and it changed again. But now! The people who only play for engrams or just to screw around aren't gonna put in all that time to farm Luna's, but the tryhards will. Now they have the meta gun that the noobs won't go get and they can dominate, why would they want to change that?

A lot of people dont understand your post, because they are either ignorant or dumb. LH and NF are OP weapons because their special perk doesnt require anything special to do. You only have to make crits. Thats all. No kills or headshot kills, just hits. Easy AF. These weapons are the cancer of the crucible. They are the meta of the meta and using anything else is holding you back. The point is not that the guns are widely used, but that there shouldnt be any gun so OP, which takes the crucible hostage like this. I like diversity in weapons and these guns ruin the crucible for being stupidly OP.

[quote]“It doesn’t make you better.” “You can counter it.” “I use [i]insert random loudout here[/i] and crush Luna’s.” I see these three things, albeit in many variations, constantly when people suggest that Luna is OP. And while it’s perhaps true to say “someone who was good enough would just kill you with something else anyway.” [i]But it sure is easier with Luna, isn’t it?[/i] Why else would you use it so much? Luna doesn’t make a bad player good. Someone’s who’s trash will remain trash with or without Luna, but someone who’s good already... Ah [i]those[/i] people get a measurable advantage over everyone else. And honestly there isn’t anything wrong with that, inherently. Use the most efficient thing to use. It’s simple. Except that not everyone can have it. The idea of introducing a gun that is calculably better than its counterparts, and only making it obtainable by better players or by a ridiculous grind if you aren’t as good, is really quite bizarre. People want a trophy to show the world that they’ve accomplished something and that’s natural. The reward for the Luna quest could’ve so easily been a set of armor (with Not Forgotten being replaced by ornaments for that armor) so that the best of the best can show everyone else that they’re not to be -blam!-ed with. Good players don’t need Luna anyway, right? So why give it to them? Because by doing so you’ve ensured that it will infect our meta and be used so often and frequently that the very sound of it firing becomes sickening. And you could say I’m biased, and maybe I am. I don’t have it, and I’m having a bitch of time trying to get it. But you know what isn’t biased? Statistics. Cold unfeeling numbers. And they tell a grand story about a gun that people who have it will swear isn’t even that good, yet somehow remains one of if not the most commonly seen weapon in loadouts in PvP now. Luna apparently isn’t even that good, but for some reason it’s in almost every single lobby you can find these days. Luna is OP, and it should’ve never been added to this game. They went back to random rolled weapons because the meta with fixed rolls had stagnated so serverly before, but then they go and make the best weapon a fixed roll only obtainable in Competitive which [i]still[/i] has no credibility. It seems like such a contradiction. It may not be a free win button, like some people will suggest. But to the people that use so religiously, don’t try and tell me it isn’t better than your other options. EDIT: I do not want to change the wording of the original post because I do want people to think I’m moving the goal post in this argument, but I should mention that if I didn’t get it clearly across before I apologize. This isn’t about ME getting wrecked by Luna. Does it happen? Yes. But I also have years of experience in Crucible and now how to counter it. My point is that in the grand scheme of this game’s PvP community, the concept of a pinnacle weapon (better players getting a better gun to use against bad players) is negative for this game’s growth and longevity. New players aren’t gonna play this game get wrecked by Luna a lot, see the requirements for getting it themselves, and still be motivated to keep playing. New players don’t need a participation trophy, but they don’t need to be consistently and relentlessly slaughtered either. That is ultimately my point. I’m tired of arguing about counters to Luna and how it’s apparently not even good despite being the most commonly used energy weapon in the meta right now. If you would like to address my point that pinnacle weapons are bad for community growth, I’d be glad to debate you. If you would like to call me names and belittle me like a petulant child, feel free. I’m a strong believer in free speech. EDIT 2: Saw that this is trending on the Crucible page here and that’s awesome. What is even more awesome is the engagement. I’ve tried to read all of the responses but there are getting to be so many that it’s hard to keep up. It’s great to see people just debating calmly without resorting to name calling. There’s still plenty of that of course, and I’ve tried to read all those too. Just try to remember that even you don’t agree with me or someone else, you don’t have to belittle or demean people. That just makes you look immature. Thanks again everybody![/quote] Get off the forums and git good, the gun is literally there for snyone to obtain