I have some issues with this post; specifically that you do not do much justice for Ikora or Zavala and you do a lot Cayde-pandering. First of all the fact that you think there are character [i]flaws[/i] is a bit jarring. I think you're looking for the wrong thing. You want to do a character analysis but you're doing it from the perspective of someone who thinks there should be 'perfect' characters and finding out what they're lacking to get there. Which I disagree with. We'll start with Zavala and his 'character flaw' which you say is that he cannot fight. Which is incredibly incorrect, lore-wise and in game. In the Homecoming mission, if he dies it's because he was hit directly by those missiles from that Cabal ship, whilst trying to protect [i]you[/i]. I think you're mad if you think anyone can take a missile to the face, much less a succession of them. During the last mission you probably did not notice Zavala's lack of armament and his charge into enemy fire without much in the way of cover or cover fire centred on him, and his subsequent disarming of a Cabal despite the obvious size differences between them. I think if you rush into battle without a weapon and without cover fire, there is not much you can do, yet Zavala was able to take out an enemy that could have got the jump on the rest of that team. What you say next about him being thrown about on the roof, is probably Zavala using his body as a distraction so that Cayde can finish his task properly. If you see the state of Cayde, he was not able to fight, and so Zavala had to do something to save his teammates. It's not that he can't fight, it's that in that battle, he was reckless. For good reason too. Your beloved Cayde could have died. Zavala too was ready to give up his life so that this plan could succeed, which is why he was so reckless, yet you completely don't even see this. You completely ignored the fact that Zavala was one of the heroes of Twilight Gap and led the defence of the City against the combined might of the Fallen with Shaxx and their mentor Saladin. This is one of the main reasons he was chosen as Vanguard Commander. Also in D1 Shaxx would sometimes talk about how Zavala should enter the Crucible and show the new Guardians how it's done, in his NPC dialogue. Your Cayde-pandering begins here, where you say that Cayde went one-on-one with the Vex, which first off is not even what happened. Cayde obviously had some sort of plan and was trying to make do on his own, but he did not go head to head with the Vex. Cayde does not understand Vex technology as he says himself, and because of this he got stuck. So he didn't go one on one, he -blam!-ed up and got stuck. He didn't successfully do anything on his own because we had to rescue him and help him out. I don't know what "do-what-I-say" attitude Cayde has and this is not the impression that I had when playing through the story. And what you say about harassing Zavala is not correct either; remember that the three of the Vanguard make up a fireteam and have been that way for quite a while. By now they are important to each other and even make jokes to one another; look at Ikora and Cayde's interaction in the opening cutscene for an example. Being the commander that Zavala is, and how reckless Cayde is, it is probably very rare to hear any sensitivity from Zavala, especially pertaining to Cayde. So of course, being the friends that they obviously are, that Cayde would tease him about it a little. Now Ikora, and where you show obvious signs of poor analysis. Firstly you say that she is the least interesting character in your opinion, but I don't know if this was a character analysis or an opinion-piece but whatever. You're also analysing a character without having experienced 'her part' of the game, but I will also overlook that. You mention how cool she was shooting enemies whilst on a sparrow, but we have no way of knowing if the other Vanguard members could do that or not. My problem with your analysis of Ikora is the idea that her cool-headedness is a façade. Are you an idiot? Let me ask you; as a Warlock, who studies the Light, when the Speaker, the strongest link to the Traveler suddenly disappears, when an enemy comes to the last bastion of humanity that nurtures the Guardians, [i]how on earth do you think anyone can be level headed about that?[/i] In fact, being one of the most important Guardians, it is incredibly important that the Cabal do not get close to him, which they obviously did. So no, it is not a façade, it's her personality. A person cannot be cool-headed in all situations. You cannot then say that she is the least capable without her Light. She was of course, much more distraught about it, however, whilst Zavala and Cayde dreamt up impossible battles, she went to Io to look for answers. I don't think it is in any way invalid for someone to break down when their god seemingly abandons them without any answers, especially considering they were only alive because of this god, and that without this god everything will be lost. Especially if she thinks that it is her duty to find a way, being a Warlock. I think you are completely dismissing how important the Light is to Guardians by calling her ineffective as you did. Was it not Ikora, the level-headed voice of reason that stopped the two men from launching a suicidal attack against the Red Legion? You can see how much she cares about them when she left Io to stop them. How could you miss that? You also think Cayde can't get along with other AI, completely missing the point that in reality, other AI and people alike have to deal with the messes that he creates. This is obvious Cayde bias. I beg you not to continue any sort of in depth analysis because it would be a waste of time for anyone who reads it. Your inability to separate your bias for who is obviously one of your favourite characters from your analysis is detrimental to your ability to make one, and I find it quite insulting that you think this was in any way good. And behold, the only character you have played is a Hunter. That explains everything.

Ikora is most likely the best fighter out of the Vanguard. In theory its stated that she was one of the best crucible players and reigned surpreme with her Trusty Invective. I hope that in future DLC we focus more on Ikora and Zavalla rather then Cayde for once.

Slightly disagree with your opinion on zavala vs causes fighting abilities. You gotta remember, cayde fights like a hunter ( Stealth lethality). Zavala said -blam!- it imma go titan and run up and bitch slap cabal with their own gun. Also your point about him dying in the first mission is invalid.... a game glitch doesn't count.

Zavala's flaw is that he wants to have control and he wants his fingers in everything, which is why he clashes with Cayde so often. Cayde's flaw is that he's impulsive and Ikora's flaw is... That she won't ask for help, I guess? Idk. The side missions flesh them out more. In the patrol beacon mission, Zavala wants to listen in while you and Devrim decide where to plant beacons. At one point Zavala starts giving orders but he stops himself and says, "sorry, I should let you handle this" to Devrim. His flaw is that he wants things done HIS way. He wouldn't be in the Vanguard if he couldn't fight, so Idk how you even came to that conclusion.

[quote]~[b]Skip to the bolded names to see my study of the actual characters. The first two paragraphs are an intro to why I made this thread.[/b] First off, I'd like to say how impressed I am at the story. All of the characters from D1 have become much more fleshed-out now in D2 than ever before. I know some people really don't like the PvE, but personally I could sink a dozen hours at least into it if I can see more of the well-done characterization of the characters. Mostly, I'd like to explore how Bungie has added character flaws (especially to the Vanguard). Where in D1 they were mostly one-note, now they not only have more personality than the character clichés they once were, but they also have flaws that can possibly prove tragic. In this thread I'm going to talk about the three members of the Vanguard. In a post-note, I certainly didn't do the best job I could've done at exploring the characters in their entirety, but I think I did a decent job at the best parts. [b]Zavala[/b] - In Destiny 1, Zavala was simple in that he was only seen as the "Stone-Faced Great Commander" archetype of ally. This is never really explored as he's never seen making strategic battle plans or any memorable decision at all. In the Grimoire, they only describe him as having vaguely made "tough decisions" during his time as a member of the Vanguard. His good side is seen a lot during Destiny 2, where he's constantly making various strategic decisions, sometimes with very little time to think. After all, it's because of him that Amanda Holliday dropped us on the Cabal Ship in the first mission. He's also the one who devised the plan to disable the Almighty. His great flaw, however, is made clear to anyone who paid attention: [i]He is really bad at actually fighting.[/i] Sounds weird, but when you think about what we see of him it makes sense. In the first mission, whilst we fight with him in the main lobby, there's a chance where we could see him die, and we can revive him. Especially when it comes to fighting without his Light, he sucks. During the last mission, there are two scenes where Zavala almost gets brutally murdered by the Cabal. In the main cutscene, he manages to kill a couple cabal, but gets (literally) royally stomped by another. He's then saved by Hawthorne. Later on, we see him flung across the roof patio by another cabal, and again almost murderized before again being saved by Ikora. Meanwhile, Ikora's handling herself well, and Cayde especially does better than either of them. [b]Cayde-6[/b] - Cayde-6 was perhaps the one Vanguard in D1 we saw the most of, especially during the Taken King. He was still one-note though in that his character was little outside of "The Cocky Wisecracker". In Destiny 2, like Zavala, he's shown to be a character with pros and cons alike. As a pro, he is a man of action. Even after losing his Light, he resolves to one-on-one with the mother-blam!-ing VEX and steal one of their teleporters, planning to assassinate Ghaul on his own. It's real ballsy. Another pro is that he's perhaps one of the best at fighting amongst the Vanguard. On his own, he not only managed to fight the Vex head-on (there's no sneaking past them, they're robots), but also successfully stole one of their teleporters. That brings us to his flaws. While he may not be one to give up, he's also bloody reckless. Failsafe is constantly passive-aggressive towards him by virtue of how much damage he's caused her in his ventures, and his overall plan probably wouldn't have worked in the long run anyways. Moreover, his cocky, wisecracking attitude turns into insufferable frustration in times of stress. Many times I found myself actually being annoyed by him due to his self-righteous, do-what-I-say attitude. He even harasses Zavala when he finally gets one over on him since Zavala, for once, said he needed him. [b]Ikora Rey[/b] - She is, in my opinion, the least interesting character, but then again I haven't done any Io missions aside from the main quest so she may be more fleshed-out than I remember. Whatever. In D1 she was simply the "Cool, Capable Smartie" type, with vague hints that she's low-key a savage. In D2, her coolness and actual capability are expanded on greatly. Her actual capability is perhaps greater than Zavala, but less or equal to Cayde. Like Zavala, she's seen popping supers in really short time spans, dispensing two Nova Bombs within 15 seconds in the first mission. She also can drive-by enemies on a Sparrow with a shotgun, which is mostly impressive because she's using a shotgun, the firearm in the game with the least range out of all the guns. Her cool-headed nature seems to be a façade, however. During the first mission, in battle she's more furious than anything (tying in the grimoire hinting at her past attitude as being a loose-cannon especially for a Warlock). Later on, she's shown to literally be the least capable without her light. Yes, she does act well in the final fight, but on Io she's even worse than Zavala and Cayde. At least Zavala was attempting to rally the people against Ghaul, and Cayde-6 was planning what would've been an ill-fated assassination attempt. Ikora, always having factored in the Light in her thoughts, cannot think of anything on her own. It takes our Guardian as well as the indomitable Asher Mir (who seemingly could care less if he had the Light as long as he could continue his research) to get her thoughts rolling. Like I said on top, there's indeed more to be said about these characters. I like how Cayde-6 seemingly can't get along with any other robots (even Nolanbot), and how Ikora almost cries at the realization that she can't think even on Io. I may study Hawthorne, Devrim, Failsafe, and Asher later, but probably on my own depending on the popularity of this thread. As a big fan of narrative, I did enjoy noticing all these little things that Bungie put in that makes their characters feel a lot more real instead of one-off gear dispensers.[/quote] Pfff u analyze is crap

Great post! The only thing I would disagree with is Zavala being a bad fighter. In my opinion his flaw is that he wants everything done strategically in his way. Like when he interrupts Devrim in that one adventure on Earth, or when he tells Cayde that he can't lead your fireteam at the start of "The Arms Dealer" strike. In the campaign he [i]partly[/i] realizes this in the cutscene before the tank mission where he says "If there's one thing I've learned from Cayde, it's to have a grand entrance.". He still acts like he normally does, but he also tries to not be as much of a control freak. He also starts to realize he needs Cayde, even though he doesn't get along with him well. This is also made more interesting when he says "And Cayde, when this is all over, I'll talk to Holliday about your tank.". That's all just my opinion though. Besides that I agree with all the points you made.

If you listen to cayde you'd know ikora is a monster in the crucible. Zavala killed a cabal with his own gun. Watch zavalas trailer and tell me he can't fight. Hawthorne saving him was to make her look like a bad ass for saving zavala who is himself a badass.

Good post I agree with you