bro i played against you in iron banner the other day for quite a few matches, you were with azlan i think? anyway, you were slaying out bro, i was using an igneous and you were still getting me no worries, i dont think this gun is a problem, just some players are goated man, doesent matter what gun they use they will clean up and in trials your gonna see 120s across the board cos team shotting is so effective, even if they nerf em hard itll still be the same story, just those excellent players will close a few more metres and cream us with 140s instead :) just enjoy yourself bro, dont be angry or worry bout what other people use, we all have great games and terrible games :)

They still have lots of range but it's not as bad as before. You can actually beat them with a scout easily once they experience damage drop-off. I actually think the best counter to them is a 340 pulse. Great damage with low ttk. Same solution for facing dmt.

Exaggeration doesn't help your cause - with most 120s now getting damage dropoff at around 35m, it's definitely a strong range but it will get outclassed in the upper 30s and low 40s by pulses and anything further by scouts. Sure that does keep scouts more situational considering map design, but you're not losing b/c 120s debatably have 1 to 5m more range than they need/could/should have. For example in Widow's court from the top of stairs at A, you're going to start getting drop-off at the outer walls of church (C). Someone inside the doors of church (much less further back) will be blasting an igneous hammer user if they have a good pulse or scout much less a sniper. What 120s need and Igneous in particular is a less forgiving hitbox. Too many body shots are given head shots.

They are only spiders because most maps are the size of a shipping container.

Yeah the hand Cannon meta has been absurd for like most of the last two years. I wish they'd tune that crap down so I can actually use something else.

DMT is a bigger joke

Hand cannons should simply not have all that range, I see no reason why bungie reverted the range nerf after they nerfed auto rifles. Hand cannons were doing just fine

I main hand cannons and I think 120s are far out of line. I miss 150s and main 140s now out of nothing but sheer denial of this 120 meta because I find it so unfun and such a step back from the skillgap of the 150 meta. 20 rpm difference, which results in such a slight difference in time to kill than 9/10 times a 120 and 140 user will trade if they both hit 3 shots, is not enough to make up for the benefits of 120s. They are effective at close to double the range of 140s which is basically any angle in the game, you dont need to hit all headshots infact at low resilience you only need to hit one, they are easier to aim because they shoot slower, and they can two tap with any of the long laundry list of easily attainable damage buffs in this game. I think a primary that can do that much damage in one shot, which effectively takes someone out of a fight, is unbalanced to begin with, but if the high damage per shot comes with caveats then it is understandable. 120s do not have caveats, they are better than 140s and other primaries in pretty much every situation.

For me all I’m seeing is shotguns ! People are just walking around or camping with shotty’s. Back to hc’s and shotty’s ….again ! The only time it gets interesting is when people are forced to use different weapons for quests or bounties.

agree that HC's need nerfs in pvp

This gun is a real problem for me in PvP. They have such killer range. I always seem to be outgunned by them no matter what I use. No handgun has any business out ranging a scout and I've seen that happen.

What's really a joke is the amount of people that try to out duel a HC inside of 30m with a scout rifle and then complain on the forums like it's not their own fault...

Its problems stem from so many areas. from less penaltys in air, high upfront damage that penalizes duels, minimal counter play, great range, and low skill ceiling. Would we be in this meta bubble if 150s still existed? I dont think so or atleast it would have a competitor and not stand at the summit alone.

Funny My main death in pvp is snipers, shotguns, and fusion rifles Can’t wait for halo, where power weapons spawn on the ground, making it fair, and balanced Something bungie knows NOTHING about

I might get flame for this, but I will try to use logic on you lot. While I do see the high usage rate of 120 s, I know for a fact that it's more cuz of its versatility than anything. The thing is... I'm not sure if this is more a 120 issue, more so that this is a map issue. And a general movement issue. Because there's free movement using a lot of exotics and a lot of the abilities we have, we can take a potshot and get into cover super quickly. Because the choices of maps we have are so small, 120s can reach a further distance. Thing is... This actually is the best meta we have had in a very long time. Regardless of what people say. Barring some issues with 120s, and dead men's tale on PC, it's fairly balanced right now in terms of gun game Most of the time if you're getting beat by 120 you're getting beat by somebody who is better than you. And generally they are better than you at either strafing super well, using cover effectively, or baiting you. In terms of lethality, 120 is actually aren't the most lethal. They are when they have a damage boost, but I can see that being a thing that they might nerf. Like rampage cannot kill you in two shots or something. Or charged with light just doesn't work in PvP. A 120 does not have double the range of a 140. It has anywhere in between 3 to 8 m more than your standard 140. And if your standard 140 is ace, a well-rolled palindrome, or well-rolled fatebringer, or a well rolled hawkmoon, that is more low end. While I do understand the frustrations a lot of people have. I think it would be wise for us to understand that if things are tuned a little too much or nerfed a little too much we could see an over correction like the auto rifle meta that happened last year. I think it would be wise to look at the other peripherals and adjust those before any more weapon adjustments are made on the hand cannons. And I'm sorry, but the 150 hand cannon meta was a spam canon meta. Those things can burn. I don't ever want to see another spare rations again. And my main weapon is a hand cannon half the time.

I have been one shot by IH a few times when I am at full health. Just BAM from out of nowhere. True. But its nearly always a shotgun or the annoying Dawnblade that seems to last forever.

If you use igneous at short range you die. At longe range if you use igneous against snipers or heavy scouts you die. 120 hand cannons were ALWAYS long range and for the first SIX YEARS they sucked donkey kong. Now they are relevant and have just got a nerf by the way in range. The Last Word hand cannon or a shotty or a slug or a sidearm , even 180 hand cannons like epitaph will rape an igneous at short to mid range. ANYTHING will rape an igneous at short range. without longer range effectiveness the 120 will not be used AT ALL.

why not buff the rest? why nerf range in every weapon so shotgun apes can get closer?