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12/22/2014 12:38:50 PM
84
Has Anyone At Bungie Ever Fired A Weapon?
I've been inspecting the weapons Destiny has to offer since its release, and I've noticed three recurring archetypes for Automatic Rifles: High Imact/Medium Fire Rate Rifles, Low Impact/ High Fire Rate Rifles, and Very Low Impact/ Very High Fire Rate Rifles.
Along with this, I've noticed that there is a recurring pattern of Stability involved with each of the Auto Rifle archetypes.
It seems that the [i]higher[/i] the Impact of the Rifle, the [i]higher[/i] the Stability.
Now, this also relates to Rate of Fire, though I'll save that for later.
Since all of these weapons operate on conventional technology, that is, bullets, that means that the [i]higher[/i] the Impact, the [i]bigger[/i] the round being fired.
To fire bigger rounds, you need more motive, gunpowder, otherwise you'd be moving the round at much slower speeds, therefore sacrificing Impact.
More gunpowder means [i]more[/i] motive, and for every [i]action[/i] there is an equal and opposite [i]reaction[/i]; that [i]reaction[/i] is what we call Recoil.
So, the [i]bigger[/i] the round, the greater the reaction, which means more Recoil.
Why is it that weapons like the Suros Regime and Shadow Price fire such high Impact rounds with [i]no[/i] Recoil, while Rifles like the Hard Light and Monte Carlo fire such a small round and suffer [i]ridiculous[/i] Recoil?
It should be the exact opposite!
*As for Rate of Fire, I've drawn an analogy to spare you the unnecessarily long explanation: a Socom-14, a deviation of the popular M-14 Rifle platform, fires the 7.62mm, which is our real-life High Impact Rifle, a few rounds go off in quick succession and its barrel jumps from the center of a red-bull's eye to the highest of its rings. An AR-15 fires the smaller 5.56mm, our real-life Medium Impact Rifle, and its barrel jumps from the bull's eye's center to the ring just above. The recoil has even less effect when firing something like a PX2, a submachine gun since it fires a pistol round, the 9mm, making it our real-life Very Low Impact Rifle.
So, why did Bungie purposefully re-arrange these real-life Impact/RoF/Stability correlations for their designs?
Not only are they inaccurate, it completely skews the balance of the game, making the Suros and its High Impact associates top-notch, and weapons like the Hard Light and Monte Carlo completely unusable!
TL;DR: High Impact weapons should have [i]greater[/i] Recoil than Low Impact weapons even when factoring in Rate of Fire. Low Impact/High RoF weapons are unusable thanks to this deliberately inaccurate design.
Bring balance to the game, Bungie!
- Sincerely, someone who wants to like the Hard Light
English
#feedback
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I agree with the post and hate the way the guy reloads after every mag change. Specially on the auto rifles and shotguns. Most modern guns only require a re cock after bullets are finished. Or running while reloading cancels the animation anyway!
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5 RepliesThe shotgun bugs the hell out of me. 5 shot in the tube magazine . . . fire off two rounds, reload. Once your character reloads the two rounds . . . they rack the slide. Anyone has fired a shotgun knows you would've just ejected an unfired shell since you always have the pump animation when firing. I've also noticed when you've fired all of your shots you can get off a shot just by loading a shell into the magazine. You have to rack the slide to get a shell from the magazine to the chamber of the shotgun (the barrel). But I guess it's all just space magic.
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There's nothing wrong with hard light when used in the situation for which it's best suited ie indoors at short to medium range and definitely not in pvp. I usually use it combined with a sniper to take care of long range targets.
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Yeah sooo your "conventional technology " is nothing more than sticks and stones after 700 years and a technological renaissance via the traveler.
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its called a video game it has alien weapons it it come on you cant be serious
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2 RepliesIt's plain to see that the truly talented Bungie members either left or were fired. Those running Bungie now put screwing over their players as their biggest priority. No Story, No Vision, Lies upon Lies as to how Expansive, Mysterious and Enthralling Destiny would be. Destiny has a Mad-Lib produced plot, Brain Dead Enemy AI, Zero Surprises, just Endless Repetition. It has the most Boring and Dead game worlds ever encountered. What a GD waste. No way is Destiny gonna last 10 years in this appalling state! I'd say Destiny 2 actually getting made is a long-shot. Players have good reason to feel betrayed and let down by Destiny. Bungies former stellar reputation has been demolished, never again will pre-order or buy a Bungie game without giving reviewers time to find out how awful it is.
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1 ReplyThis lowered my iq
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Not sure if you feel like covering it or not but the low effective range of shotguns might also be something to touch on. I know there are shotguns that do have range, I also know that there are "sawn off" variants that have a shorter range, I'm referring to the full size shotguns that seem to have an effective range of 2 meters rather then 10 meters. Other then that, great post.
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12 RepliesCool man. You want to give the game some realism. That's nice but a couple things you'll have to address. -Find out how lasers/plasma shoots from a gun -Find a bullet that will literally disintegrate a body instantly -Find out how to harness "void" energy -Find these guns that can penetrate a knights shield but from any other gun you can not shoot through it. Once you find and shoot those guns, then and only then will you be able to find the right "recoil" or muzzle flash.
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Easily the game is a game based on fiction if you want more realistic features you may want to find a different game.
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This is legit. It would be cool to incorporate real gun physics and such into the game. But what has previously been said I will repeat again and say, with all the futuristic style things included in this game such as elements and all of that it would be extremely hard to piece that in there with the reality of how a gun actually works. But that doesn't mean there can't be a happy medium! Good post!
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1 ReplyThis is the kind of feedback I love constructive and thought based. Excellent points dude!
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1 ReplyBecause space magic.
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1 ReplyEdited by l33t_n_3ss: 12/24/2014 2:45:15 AM
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7 RepliesHave you ever fired a rifle? Not saying you haven't and not meant as an insult, just wondering if you have experience with them. Okay, now what I was going to say. There are a lot more variables involved than just Big bullets = more gunpowder = more recoil. Rate of fire does play a much bigger role than I think you give it credit for and there's also weight. In general, the larger the weapons caliber, the heavier the gun tends to be to compensate for the stronger recoil that will inadvertently follow. No one on the planet will design a gun that shoots a 7.62x51mm with a frame designed for a 9mm. The gun would tear itself apart. There are also recoil systems that affect the recoil. Different springs and recoil compensation systems can take a gun that fires a 7.62x51mm and make it feel as if it were a .22 cal. Little things like this that are not visible or knowable from just looking at the weapon can make a [b]HUGE[/b] difference when a weapon fires. Don't think I'm saying that everything is fine with Bungie's logic, because there are discrepancies here and there. There are some that are also pretty spot on. Snipers for example are generally realistic, Praedyth's Revenge (Don't know if I spelled that right, I don't personally have the weapon, but everyone I know does) is lower impact but high stability while the Icebreaker is high impact and terrible stability and that tends to be how sniper rifles perform in real life. (Because there's no sniper light enough to carry, yet heavy enough to absorb a .50cal's recoil effectively standing up) So, I don't mean to prove you wrong, but I can't stand seeing a post with parts left out that could change the way the system is viewed. As other people have said though, a lot of the system was designed so that it was more balanced. If weapons with high rates of fire had great stability and slow firing weapons with high impact had terrible stability, no one would use high impact weapons. Feel free to comment and discuss this with me, I don't mind.
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3 Repliesyou sir are incorect the reason they use this formula is not because weapon with higher impact has less recoil but because the lower fire rate of the higher impact auto rifles allows for the time needed to correct your aim in between shots fired, which destiny eliminate the player from having to do because the guardian corrects it for you. the lower the rate of fire of a weapon the more controlable the weapon is this can easily be tested by firing an ak-47 in both single fire and full auto modes in single fire since you are taking the time to correct for the recoil your shots will be much more accurate than when you fire the weapon in fully automatic mode because as the weapon fires at the increased fire rate you are suffering from additional recoil while still correcting from the first shot. this is the exact reason that precision rifles are not made in fully automatic variants and a battle rifle has a select fire mechanism the thompson sub-machine gun fires a .45 caliber pistol round however you will suffer much more muzzle climb with that weapon than in an ar15 assult rifle that is in semi automatic mode the issue of stability of a shot down range is a combination of all of the variables however the one that will always be true is that the higher the rate of fire the worse the stability of the weapon. there is a point when this rule no longer applies however no hand held weapon exceeds that threshold the dylan minigun for example is a nearly perfectly stable weapon however it fires at a rate of over a thousand rounds per minute and is not usable as a hand held weapon. while you attempted to make a viable argument you missed your mark by only considering weapons firing a single round or both firing a burst of rounds fully automatically of the same shot count, plus you didnt actually do these tests you simply speculated based on the recoil from a single round. i respect your attempt but your argument is incorrect.
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There are many issues with the design and function of Destiny's guns, but I won't go trying to understand a futuristic reality in a fictional universe. You would have a better argument if you complained about call of duty or any other "war simulator" that pretends to use modern day weaponry because they are all wrong too.
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You do realize this game is set in the far future right?. Weaponry could easily have been developed to fight off the disadvantages you mention.
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4 RepliesEdited by Demodog2112: 12/23/2014 6:31:03 PMThis is only partially accurate. High ROF weapons can have more recoil and barrel climb than weapons with a lower ROF and larger rounds/caliber. This all depends on things like barrel length, rifling (and how tight that rifling is), type of powder being used and buffer springs and compensators. Not to mention more gun powder doesn't always equate to rounds leaving the weapon at higher speeds. Velocity/FPS of a round leaving a weapon is an expression of a number of differing factors. Such as, but not limited too: Quality of the powder being used, length of barrel, Flash suppressors, type of operating system the weapon uses, rifling etc. A good example of this are SMG's that fire pistol rounds. The same round fired from an SMG has a higher fps velocity than the same round fired from a pistol. Why? Length of the barrel for starters. It's long been established that longer barrels = longer burn times for powder. Longer burn times = more of the potential energy from the gunpowder being translated into kinetic energy transferred to the round being fired. This is ballistics 101. You should also look at weapons like the Thompson SMG and say, the M1911A1. Why? The Thompson operates on Blowback while the M1911A1 is gas operated. They fire the exact same round, but the Thompson has very high recoil. Why? My experience with firearms was learned in the School of Hard Knocks... the U.S.M.C. Edit: This was in response to the O.P. not BDSKiller.
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3 RepliesJust a little something to edit on your post I don't think it should impact it but destiny gets away with being T because there's no blood So what are we shooting then? And why does it show up as whites greens and purples on the ground? Well it's energy We are shooting energy That's how there's no blood because it burns as it penetrates and breaks bones and body parts So maybe in a Destiny universe where they shoot energy instead of bullets These stats make sense At the same time they may not Again just a little edit Not taking sides or meaning to be go against you or anyone else Just pointing it out (Flame war begins) Goddamn it
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5 RepliesDude this is for balance issues. And you are also forgetting a very big thing about this game. It takes places generations in the future none of the weapons should be similar to today's or this would be a modern game. This is all for balance and who knows maybe technology is good many generations after a advanced traveler visits the earth and shares many secrets
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1 ReplyNo one at Bungie has fired a gun, but they definitely have fired a musical composer before.
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I have the answer to why this happens Space gun magic
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1 ReplyI thought the game used rail based technology, resulting in the way the guns handle? That was the explanation I gave myself
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It's a game. But the game is in the future so maybe they found a way around it with traveler light and space magic or whatever.
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Edited by enderprime: 12/23/2014 8:14:04 PMpeople talking about real weapon mechanics in a game universe... sigh, there's always one somewhere maybe while we were figuring out how to navigate between planets we also solved the problem of high fire rate vs recoil, I dunno, just a thought also, you haven't inspected anything. It's a game. You fired a gun in a game. The gun was not real.
