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#feedback

10/3/2014 7:36:10 PM
16

Why I feel that PvP is poorly balanced

[b]TLDR [/b]– Too many 1hko abilities and poor map selection that primarily only supports CQC. After playing a bunch of PvP I have to say that I find it not very fun and the only reason I do it is for rep and marks. If it wasn't for those two things (or for playing with friends) then I likely wouldn't bother with it at all. The biggest issues are extreme number of 1hko abilities and the maps (there's eight 1hko attacks ignoring the 1hko grenades, with machine guns being on par with others given their damage+ROF). I'll go over everything below and my take on each one, starting with maps. [b]Maps [/b]– Pretty much all of the maps are close quarters maps. Even the larger maps have so much cover, tunnels, etc that one can render medium and long range weapons ineffective for the majority of the fight. What this means is that certain weapons can seem underpowered when in fact they're either fine or overpowered. Likewise, it means that fine or underpowered weapons can seem overpowered because the maps cover up their issues. [b]Primary Weapons[/b] – We already know that changes are on the way for the AR, PR, and SR so there isn't much to say here until the changes are live. Likewise HCs can't really be evaluated until the changes come out. But until then everyone knows that ARs are king of the primaries. [b]Special Weapons[/b] – Really the only weapon here that is even potentially balanced is the shotgun, but more on the individual weapons below. In general these weapons 1-2 hit enemies, ammo is excessively abundant, and the only thing keeping them somewhat in check is that the current maps extremely limit two of them. Ironically it is the design of the maps that makes the third weapon so dominate as the maps cover up the rather large deficiencies of the shotgun. [b]Shotguns[/b]: Mechanics-wise these are balanced to slightly underpowered (especially if you don't have a “Send It” or the increased range when ADS upgrade on the gun). Now how can the most-used special weapon be underpowered mechanics-wise you ask. Easy, because of current map design and familiarity. Throw in practically any Halo map and both the sniper rifle and fusion rifle would blow away the shotgun. But because all the maps either force you into extremely close quarters or have large close quarters sections (allowing you to pretty much force your opponent into CQC for the majority of the match), you never really see the extremely large deficiencies of the shotgun. So then, what needs to happen to balance this gun? First, lower the damage so that it takes either two shots at close range, a shot and a melee strike, or a close/melee range headshot. Second is to increase the range to that of what the gun has with the “Send It” upgrade so that the gun isn't pointless to use on anyone that is outside of melee range (hitting like a limp noodle on someone that is only 6-10 feet in front of you but yet 1-2 shotting at 5 or less is just poor balance). And third would be to add in maps that don't force everyone to fight so close that the lower range actually matters. The point is to have a good CQC gun, lower 1hko abilities in the game, and let the gun still be a threat to things that are close but out of melee range (not the most efficient/effective weapon on these targets, but not so weak that it can be ignored so long as you keep moving). Note that some shotguns “might” have too much range as I haven't tested things like the Universal Remote with its increased range when ADS, but generally speaking, if it wasn't for the current maps people wouldn't be using shotguns that much. Ignoring the round count, to me the Halo:CE has been the best balanced shotgun of all the Bungie games. Deadly at close range, while still being a threat to targets that are a bit further away even though it isn't the most effective of guns for those ranges. [b]Fusion Rifles[/b]: Mechanics-wise these things are overpowered. The majority of them have a short charge time, they can 1hko anything at close range (this “close range” being far longer than a shotgun but still not what I would call medium range), and can still be effective out to the beginning of medium ranges. If it wasn't for the map design so heavily favoring shotguns these things would be the special weapon that everyone would be QQing about. The main change needed is a damage reduction so that the gun takes two shots to kill at the closer ranges and 3-4 at the further end of its effective range. The advantage of this gun over the shotgun is that it has a much further effective range, but isn't as effective at closer targets. [b]Sniper Rifles[/b]: Extreme range, 1-2hko, plentiful ammo, and a game that many complain about the large amount of aim assist. I hope I don't need to explain to you how that is overpowered on a mechanics level in a game already teaming with 1hko abilities. Simply tone these down to either 3 body shots or a body+headshot kills someone and they would likely be balanced. That or move them to the Heavy Weapons category where the ammo is already reasonably limited (though this would have larger PvE ramifications). Also there needs to be more maps that would allow sniper rifles to be used. [b]Heavy Weapons[/b]: Overall I would say that these are reasonably balanced. There might be some out there that need tweaking, but the rarity of the ammo combined with how little ammo you get helps to keep their power in check. Currently they do help contribute to the excessive number of 1hko abilities, but I don't really find them to be an issue from a balance perspective. [b]Ultimates [/b]- These are the worst offenders for 1hko abilities, especially the hunter. I'll go over the individual abilities below, but as a group they are too common and too hard to counter (or flat out impossible the majority of the time). In an eight minute match and if the specials were to activate every three minutes then in clash/control you could theoretically have an ult going off every 25 seconds for the rest of the game starting at the three minute point. Now in-game it isn't likely to happen quite like that, but once you throw in orbs of light, gear that increases super energy, intellect, etc you can still have an excessive number of ults being thrown around once people start to get their ultimates. Short of an overhaul of the majority of the ults, the easiest way to balance it would be to simply disable them in PvP. I don't see that happening so the next best thing would be to work on rebalancing some of the ults and/or lowering the rate that the bar fills up in PvP. Below are what my suggestions would be on how to rebalance them for PvP without them being overpowered. [b]Titan[/b]: [b]Fist of Havoc[/b] – The ability is already an area 1hko that can do things like leave a pulse on the ground that 1hkos, you should be able to be killed during the activation. Also consider dropping the damage to 50% of the peoples HP. That way the Titan (or his team) has to actually do something to kill the person besides just using an ult. Note that this would also mean that the pulses would only do 50% damage (so a hit+pulse would still kill the person if they don't leave the area). [b]Bubble [/b]– I would say that it is generally balanced, but the amount of damage that it can absorb in PvP so that it can reasonably be countered. Would need testing, but something like 2x the HP of the titan (max titan hp, not current hp) so that a person/team can counter it but still let it provide a strong defensive use to the titan and his team. [b]Warlock[/b]: [b]Nova Bomb[/b] – The targeting on this ability is horrible between the switching to third person and the float/drift that your character does during the animation (which can also cause you to float behind cover before it fires). Drop the damage to 50%, fix the targeting issues and it should be good. Enemies could still die to it if they stay in the vortex, get hit by multiple fragments when it splits, etc. [b]Radiance [/b]– This ability feels the most underpowered of the ultimates. While I'm glad that it isn't a 1hko ability, the damage reduction upgrade feels rather underwhelming and the self resurrection takes so long that enemies can either kill you, get away, or regen their health before you can regain control of your character. The damage reduction might be fine once the AR, SR, and PR changes happen, but without seeing them it is hard to say. But the self resurrection needs to faster to even attempt to be on-par with other ultimates. [b]Hunter[/b]: [b]Golden Gun[/b] – A 1hko with the longest range of the ultimates and the ability to kill three enemies, while running around with it activated. Instead change it to six shots from the current three, but make them do 50% damage. That way players can actually respond instead of it being practically an “IWIN” button. [b]Arc Blade[/b] – Nothing seems more overpowered in PvP than this. Which I find kinda ironic since every time I've used it in PvE I've found it to be underwhelming (though my hunter is only lvl10 and unable to use his Mask of the Third Man or the various Arc Blade upgrades). Yes this ability can be wasted if you don't use it smartly, but it can also completely destroy an enemy team moreso than other ults. I'm not sure exactly how to balance this so that it isn't completely gimped for the hunter, while still giving the other players a way to deal with it. Something needs to be done about this ability though. So that's my take on Destiny PvP, why I think it is sub-par, and changes that would help get it to a more enjoyable experience that isn't filled with so much 1hko. If you couldn't tell, I'm really not a fan of all of the 1hko attacks that get thrown around.

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  • The "balance" in the game comes from the fact that EVERY player has access to the same weapon classes, and has supers. The Crucible is PvP shooter that rewards the player who is the best tactical thinker. Who can look at a situation and make the best DECISION about how to enter (or NOT enter) into that fight. It is NOT CoD or even Titanfall, where you are allowed to "shoot your way out of" your mistakes. So someone who is really quick and an accurate shooter and compensate for having made a dumb decision. In The Crucible if you make a stupid decision...you're dead. Just that simple. So I have NO problems at all with one-hit kills. If i'm close enough to someone with a shotgun or fusion rifle for them to take me out, and NOT realize they are there..then I deserve it. If I stand still enough for a sniper to put a round in my head without realizing they are there (or seeing the scope flare)...then I deserve it. You DO however have a valid point about the maps. Too many of the maps emphasize CQC at this poitn...and there needs to be a wider variety. I assume that Bungie will address this in the future.

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    • I agree the hunter is OP as -blam!-, the Titan bubble shield is annoying, and the warlock nova bomb needs to not change to 3rd person when activated.

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      • Your ideas are terrible

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        • My problem has been whenever I do pvp I'm the second highest in level I'm at 24. I get half or more of my team between levels 5-11 while the other team is over powered with one level 11 or 12 and the rest 23+ that level difference makes it very difficult or impossible to actually win a crucible and get rewards. Plus what's with the two guys that don't do shit in the crucible get all the rewards at the end? I've seen a guy die 13 times and only have 5 kills and get rewards where I didn't get anything when I had over double those kills

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        • Edited by Draconus2006: 10/8/2014 3:33:38 PM
          I agree, shotguns really are not that OP. Problem is the map design is such crap, shotgun becomes king. arc blade? IMO make it a 90 or 95% reduction to MELEE damage. this would allow it to be viable in PvE without becoming even more OP in pvp (look at adjusting its damage shield against bullets).

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        • Edited by ChaosMetalMarty: 10/5/2014 10:48:10 AM
          Too many One-shot kills summs it up perfectly

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          • TL:DR Its an Activision game

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          • I have one short comment; you probably suck

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              Most of it I agree except the supers and fusion rifles.The fusion rifles,well you have to find a perfect one to do a decent amount of damage.The supers I think are just fine how they are honestly,I like the fact that I do to the most randomest stuff oh and also you can make a very tanky sunsinger if you use radiance,full armor, flame sheild and full strength.each scorch is a one shot kill man.Warlock can also counter a titan if he enters the titan 's ward of dawn and drop a void bomb and such.Hunter? Well if you do it correctly dont try and take them head on while they have supers.Especially arc blade,best you can do is help your team and drive them AWAY from a whole crowd.Which is what I do so they dont get free kills

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              • Edited by GoodwillWright: 10/5/2014 10:09:12 AM
                Honestly, for about the first few days I played Destiny, I would have shared the same sentiments about the absurdity of Ultimates. But quite frankly... they are pretty laughable now. Here's how I counter (or avoid) the Ults: Striker - Don't let him get close, pin him from a distance. Defender - Don't bother with him and move on. Gunslinger - Well... he only has 3 shots. But other than that, shoot him in the back with an Auto Rifle/Heavy Machinegun or ult him. Blade Dancer - Just shoot him till he dies, and don't stand in a group with your team mates cause you are just asking to either get grenaded or ulted to death with them. Warlock - Back the frig away or snipe him out of the air with your most heavy hitting gun. Their ult takes a while to charge up and is easy to avoid if you see it coming. Sunsinger - Shoot him to death or just run away, he can't do much with his ult besides grenade spam. Self ressurection usually equals a free kill for you if you have your weapon with a full magazine. Overall, I rarely get ulted because I mainly support my team from another location and let them take all the grenades and ults for me. When I see them burn their ult, that's when I know it's safe to move in. I get killed by a Shotgun or an Auto Rifle 10x more than an Ult, why not nerf them? (*sarcasm)

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                • well i had played the pvp in beta.what feel is most of the maps have roughly the same design both interior and exterior. More importantly almost every map is a copy and paste from pve which is very disappointing none the less.

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                • Edited by Deathray: 10/5/2014 9:30:39 AM
                  I would have to disagree with you in the shotguns being balanced part. Shotguns have quite some range too them though not as much as fusion rifles, but they are on par with a hand cannon, especially one with a high rate of fire and a gain more precision while aiming down sight bonus. Sniper rifles I would say are the most balanced since shooting at a sniper would cause them to flinch. Of course ARs can practically beat any sniper just by single shotting the sniper, keeping the sniper in a non stop flinch. How does a sniper dominate CQC maps? How is a shotgun underpowered in a CQC map? Most of the maps have too much cover and junk in the way for a sniper to get some range in.

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                  • I think the "fix" for the map playlist that they did was stupid. Instead of just reducing the time the vehicle maps pop up they shouldve done something else. Even if those 2 maps show up less it doesnt stop you from playing exodus blue 10 times in a row or any other map. What they should have simply done is, whatever map recently played will not show up in the playlist of the next game. Now you could have it where you played first light so the next game you play will not be first light but the game after that could be it so bungie couldve fixed that simply by giving the map a cooldown where it isnt mixed into the future game playlist until after 2 or 3 games.

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                    • Cry cry cry You die too much so the game is OP. Never in my life have I one hit killed in PVP with a sniper other than a headshot. 2 shots to the body and dead two. It'd be a even more ridiculous to down the damage even more. Would you be standing after a single sniper bullet to the chest? Shotguns these are largely the same as halo, one shot and a melee, or two shots. They only one hit kill if the player is already hurt. Everyone is crying about supers atm. It's still about tactics regarding them. Some are better in areas than others. Cry cry cry the titans ward of Dawn means I can't shoot them. So what? Run off find some one else to riddle with bullets. Oh no! arc blade, put some distance between you and them and riddle with bullets. Oh no I floated behind cover using my warlock super, make sure you have space. Stop complaining and just play better.

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                      • I don't see why you're asking for such a heavy nerf of the supers... They are superchargers! Designed to be op 1hko abilities. I like them just how they are. (Although I will regularly complain about the hunters 3 shots of golden glory)

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                        • Bump

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