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12/19/2014 2:24:08 AM
3
Your idea for the no backup plans would make them ridiculously overpowered.... They are actually really good as they are. If anything were to be changed, you could just give extra super or grenade energy on melee kill when the melee ability is ready.
Hunter would be better off with the addition of a second trip mine grenade.
I don't have the stand asides so I have no real opinion on them atm.
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Please explain how my idea would make No Backup Plans 'ridiculously overpowered'. It would most certainly make them more powerful than they currently are, but no more powerful than the Helm of Saint-14 or the Armamentarium. Currently the only thing No Backup Plans does is extend the duration of Force Barrier and that extension stacks with Relentless and extends the overall duration to be almost as long as the cooldown. If you have a helm that provides melee energy from grenade hits you can regen Disintegrate faster than the duration of Force Barrier. So it's only purpose is to allow you to keep Force Barrier up as long as there are enemies around that you can kill in melee. In practice I very rarely am able to keep Force Barrier up for the entire duration anyhow since it usually gets broken by damage. Against a single powerful enemy like a boss or a group of powerful enemies with no fodder to kill Force Barrier is useless. Comparatively a Warlock's Flame Shield will apply just from dealing damage and will help mitigate damage taken during a fight against similar enemies, a fact that seems to contradict the very idea of Defender Titans being the toughest Guardians. I see no reason that having Force Barrier apply on damage dealt and having the duration be no longer than what is normally available through using Relentless in exchange for not using some other exotic armor would be unbalanced when compared to the effects of other exotic armors like Mask of the Third Man (which when combined with Encore enables a Hunter to Blade Dance permanently against large groups of weak enemies) or Starfire Protocol (which allows a Sunsinger to have THREE Fusion Grenades at once). The abilities that are available in the same Tier as Relentless apply to Ward of Dawn (longer duration for Ward of Dawn or Orbs created by Damage absorbed) and Gift of Light is only of benefit to other players (creates Orbs by melee kills while Force Barrier is active) and is far inferior to Unbreakable (allows Force Barrier to regenerate) and War Machine (weapons swap, ready, and reload instantly while Force Barrier is active) so it won't allow the stacking of extremely powerful effects (having War Machine and Unbreakable at the same time would indeed be overpowered).
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Edited by WiiFanatic13: 12/19/2014 5:13:42 AMI should have specified that it would be overpowered in pvp. Not so much in pve tho. Sorry for the misunderstanding. As for why, force barrier lasts 10s by default, 15 with either no backup plans or the duration perk, and 20s if you have both. Now if you have no backup plans and choose the increased strength of force barrier and shield Regen perks for the Titan you will have a shield that regens, is durable, and lasts 15s.now imagine being able to activate that with merely punching someone. This would effectively ensure the Titan would win this initial fight and then his shield would Regen and he would have his shield for well say another 12ish seconds. This would allow defender titans to just kamikaze whoever they see as soon as their melee ability is ready and basically give them a super shield. Couple that with high strength stat and they would dominate pvp. As for some form of buff to pve, I would not be opposed to that as they definitely leave little reason to use them over the armamentarium, Saint 14, or ruin wings. But you also have to realize that not every exotic is ideal for every situation. This is why there are several to choose from and they have unique traits. No backup plans are awesome for pvp, any melee bounty (meleeing cursed thrills comes to mind haha), and just straight survival. Edit: Btw, the starfire protocol does not stack with gift of the sun, so a sunsinger cannot have 3 fusion grenades. That would also be stupid op in crucible as the fusion grenades (along with magnetic and flux) are already on in there to begin with..
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Edited by Lorebot: 12/19/2014 7:55:20 AM[quote]This would allow defender titans to just kamikaze whoever they see as soon as their melee ability is ready and basically give them a super shield. [/quote] This is exactly what Sunsingers do in PVP already and they win almost every time 1v1 and a lot of the time in 1v2 and they're just using a class ability not an exotic armor and using any other ability for their melee is foolish for PVP purposes. Force Barrier is only stronger than Flame Shield when Relentless is equipped, and even then it's still vulnerable to burst damage like shotguns and fusion rifles. The regen provided by Unbreakable will not stop you from dying, it just allows the shield to regen once you're not taking damage any more so you can get back in the fight faster. Considering it would be at the cost of wearing other exotics like the Helm of Saint-14 (which is pretty damn powerful in PVP when used with Armor of Light to gain massive damage reduction when inside the Ward of Dawn bubble) I'd consider that justified. [quote] But you also have to realize that not every exotic is ideal for every situation. This is why there are several to choose from and they have unique traits. No backup plans are awesome for pvp, any melee bounty (meleeing cursed thrills comes to mind haha), and just straight survival.[/quote] I'm well aware that no exotic is ideal for every situation, but currently No Backup Plans isn't ideal for ANY situation. The added duration is NEVER worth the trade off for any other exotic armor bonus the titan has, 5 extra seconds just isn't enough even with Unbreakable to help with regen. I haven't gotten my hands on the Starfire Protocol yet myself, I was told it allowed 3 Fusion Grenades. Even if it doesn't it still allows a Sunsinger to equip 2 of their end tier abilities at once and that's incredibly powerful. Fusion Grenades don't normally ignite enemies they damage since Touch of Flame isn't anywhere near as useful as Gift of the Sun, Starfire Protocol makes this a non-issue. You get your 2 grenades and the Ignite effect for anything the grenade damages without killing outright (ie players in the blast that the grenade isn't attached to). Burning damage is extremely powerful, not just for the damage it does, but also for the ability to track targets that get out of view since you can watch the damage numbers to see where the enemy is going. Edit: No Backup Plans doesn't help you at all with meleeing Cursed Thralls. The extended duration is pointless when the explosion is going to instantly remove the entire shield anyhow. Once the shield is broken it's gone, it doesn't regen. Any massive damage is going to instantly remove Force Barrier entirely negating any duration buffs from Relentless or No Backup Plans. The only time the extra duration is of any real use is when you're able to find a way to disengage from your target to allow Unbreakable (if you're using it) to regen the shield for you. If you're using War Machine or Gift of Light instead the duration doesn't matter, the shield isn't going to last through combat anyhow.
