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Edited by Sgt Cabose: 12/11/2014 7:22:30 PM
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My real beef with the game is that it isn't intellectually engaging at all. The gun play and such is a 11/10. I do enjoy it. Read on for my frustrations. A few comparisons: Mass Effect (dead horse): I get to play the massive campaign at least 2 full times: Renegade and paragon to get a full range of different voice acted dialogue options. The classes are also very different. Game to game you can have a blast playing completely different ways through the same fights. Different weapons and skills. Way different experience. Guild Wars: all characters are at least on screen during cutscenes. Why am I watching a co-op mission as if I'm solo? Why isn't there a lick of dialogue inside the VoG? Can Atheon at least come out saying "Destroy. Destroy. Destroy." For fun? Last of Us: story. Cutscenes. Thought provoking scenarios. Granted there's no decision to be made until the end, it's a freaking ride and a half. The writers deserve their awards. Destiny: about 10 minutes of continuous dialogue with my character in it. No choice, just some bland uninspiring conversations about light and dark. The joke lines about "I don't have the time" and "I could tell you" are insulting. I WANT to put the controller down and be told a story. That story should make me want to kill something, or defend something. That is the intellectual stimulation I'm talking about. The story should drive the players actions (at first). Certainly you'll want to play because it's "just plain fun to kill stuff", but that story needs to be there to anchor the whole thing together. After the shock and awe settles from a well defined story, the game mechanics need to be solid enough to be replayable (many times over). Let's go back to Mass Effect 3 for a minute. The multiplayer supports the single player campaign! The multiplayer effort is taking place parallel to the main game so it makes since. Why are we fighting each other in the crucible? Training is a pretty weak answer so I hope that isn't the case...There's miles between Destiny and ME3 so I'll try to leave it alone now. Let's talk about WoW for a minute (just a quick one): Throughout the world there are hubs. Several of them in fact. Places to meet and interact (that's a key word: interact). There's an in game chat with multiple channels so interacting is pretty easy. Destiny's tower is a waste of time. Interaction is laughable. Its painful thumb-stick-clicking players, opening gamer cards to send messages, using the on screen keyboard to type "Raid?", then submitting for everyone you see (or using the screen from your menu. Either way). Warframe added a chat window. They figured it out. I'm not a big Warframe player, but that's obviously a benchmark requirement for player interaction without opening voice channels. What about borderlands, Fallout, and GTA V (also dead horses): NPCs located all over the maps. Finding new NPCs, seeing their splash screen intros, hearing their voice overs (OMG Claptrap is king) and doing their missions made the game feel more organic. Destiny defaults to a lifeless robot/chalkboard that gives you most of your post-game missions (bounties), and a phoned in boring monologue for all of the rest. New missions just open up on the map when you complete an old one. Story intros and out-tros are short monologues read off screen. We couldn't get a motion captured story intro to more than a couple missions? The Skyrim, GTA, Red Dead, and Fallout series all mastered the art of interesting patrols. Bungie should take note for Destiny 2. While cruising the maps you'll randomly encounter 1 of MANY different side quests. It's so much damn fun to just happen on an event in progress and complete it. I'm referring to the single player campaigns, but this model could still work. Each of those games had its own way of spawning random events, but they helped draw the player into the world and atmosphere. Ever stumble on a band of robbers dragging a woman away by horseback (Red Dead)? That sense of "Oh crap!" Is very real and engaging. Skyrim had exotic bounties. Ever find a stone in a cave that spoke to you? It leads you to a statue that turns into a beautiful sun sword. That quest was really cool and I just stumbled into it while roaming around. Destiny's public events and patrols try to mimic this, but it's pretty flat. Wow a tank is being dropped off!!! Oh, it happens every hour. Nothing bad happens if you skip it. Why are there no NPCs in the ENTIRE GAME WORLD to interact with? There's a crashed ship on earth, but no guardian to rescue? No refugees? No rebels or bandits that are trying to claim their own stake on Old Russia? So much potential when playing in a world with this much detail. The maps are so beautiful, but way too empty. Patrols are just poo. Dead Orbit wants stuff killed. I kill it. I get Vanguard rep... Wait what? I did the patrol FOR dead orbit. Why don't I get rep for them too? Clearly there are vanguard patrols, but the factions don't make sense. And why isn't there a story behind the factions? I should be rooting for my faction based on ideology, not colors alone. It's just 1 more reason that the game shows sign of struggle. I'm wanting depth. The current platform is just really wide and shallow. I don't think the hell mouth will be deep enough for me (no innuendo intended). Yes I've loaded tons of hours into Destiny. I will return. I'm just shelving the game for a bit. House of Wolves may see my return. Don't think of this as a whining post. Please. I'm just comparing it to some design concepts that I consider a bench mark to good story telling and open world-ish storytelling. [spoiler]Holy crap this is long. Sorry. Hope someone read it all :/[/spoiler]
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  • I read it all, mate. And I agree with you on every single point.

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  • I will not dismiss Destiny 2 because I think that the original plan for Destiny had tons of potential. That said, I am not buying it on launch, or anytime before six months after release. If it's still the same crap but reskinned, I am done with Bungie.

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  • Yeah same here. No preorders. I learned my lesson. Not spewing hate and discontent - just discontent. I don't trash talk the game to my friends that are interested in it either. I just tell them why I put it down... I may get Destiny 2 after its first DLC hits. Can't wait to read the forums after launch :D

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  • Yeah I'm doing the same bother. NO pre order

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  • Completely agree with every point. I desperately want to love this game, but the repetition makes it feel like a chore to play. I was hoping this DLC could pull a "shivering isles," and amaze us, but no dice . I have a strong feeling destiny 2 will be different. The head writer leaving story fiasco. There's definitely some validity in there and points to why there is no depth in this game.

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  • Honestly I think that he left because of the changes on the artistic vision and scope that he had for the game.

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  • Edited by Noctroglyph: 12/27/2014 5:56:56 PM
    You can bet that pressure came from the publisher. IMO, I still think Destiny suffered by not being a Next Gen console exclusive. There was no way they could fit what they were describing on a 360/PS3 and have a good gaming experience.

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  • This offers many good points and ideas. I'm still not sure how I feel about consequences in the game world though (you only briefly touch on that when you mention ignoring the tank). It's really cool to have it in a game but also a very major design point. It's also something that can make our break an experience. Looking at Guild Wars 2, Orr was AWESOME for a while, then people stopped visiting the area and it was hell because of all the failed events and locked content/vendors caused by those events.

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  • Great point. I only touched on "lasting effects" because I honestly don't know how I would deal with it. You don't have to make actual game changes if you're creative enough to pull the player in emotionally. Use the example I mentioned from Red Dead (woman getting carted away) and put it in Destiny: Player stumbles on a Fallen Captain leading a band of captured earth dwellers that were trying to make it to the tower. Less than gold means you watch innocent people get sucked up into the ship (tractor beams!) to be harvested or turned into Fallen slaves. There's an emotional tie to the event. Maybe the final event captain spawns like a miniboss and drops a key to a cell full of prisoners. The guardians get to open the cell and let the prisoners out!!! Instant immersion! What emotional connection do I have to some tank showing up then dissolving? Or some warsat that fell from the sky? Who cares? Another example: On the moon, a guardian ship crashes nearby. The pilot and his crew is surrounded by Hive like black hawk down. Less than gold means lives are lost. The bodies stay on the battlefield for a while to show the negative consequences... SOMETHING! These are just the byproducts of my brain pan. Not saying the game has to have my stuff in it, but the same level (and definitely better) of emotional attachment should exist. Bring me into the world and I'll get lost forever. Thanks for commenting on my ideas!

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  • I'm inclined to agree with you. Destiny isn't built to be intellectually stimulating. It's built to be addictive and it plays on those cheap satisfactions. Destiny 2 will be the same. This dlc showed they have no intent on altering the franchises fundamental design.

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  • Thank you. Addicting is a word I have yet to assign to this, but it works. Gotta get on on Friday to get my Xur fix, gotta get on on Tuesday to run my weeklies, gotta get on today run my dailies... Inhale, blow smoke. Damn!

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  • I was thinking of having a chat in the tower to find raid groups. That would be cool

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  • Ffs its not an expansion! Its dlc. Compared to other games dlcs this is pretty -blam!-ing sweet. Bf4 you get sone maps and 2 or three guns, cod gives the same, etc....

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  • But battlefield is a game that is focused of multiplayer, and those maps are great.

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  • Oops replied wrong post;) Love the game but good post.

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  • Bump. Well said

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  • True

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  • Easily the most well written post which captures what the majority of this community feels. It's almost as if you've tapped into my fire team chats and put it to a posting. You are on point and correct.

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  • Thanks! Glad I could represent!

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  • Edited by lbox87: 12/11/2014 7:36:24 PM
    This is actually one of the better posts analyzing the game and not just throwing blind hate, shouldn't be considered whining at all. Whether they'd admit it or not, the large majority likely agrees with you on some level.

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  • Much appreciated. It took some time to put together and I still missed a couple things. Any longer and it may have hit the character limit, so for that, I'm glad others are here posting the rest. Thanks again for commenting!

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  • [quote]Why isn't there a lick of dialogue inside the VoG? Can Atheon at least come out saying "Destroy. Destroy. Destroy." For fun?[/quote] I'd pay good money if it was "EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!" .... but I understand there might be certain issues if they did that.

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  • Lol that's why I went with destroy :P same thinking man!

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  • Edited by Puff Das Dragon: 12/11/2014 7:34:56 PM
    I really agree with the "[u]no NPCs in the game world[/u]". I really wished there was something like you said, either a dude who needs rescuing or tracking a weird monster to it's lair from foot prints you found. IDK something engaging and makes me get invested. It's partial why Bungie referring to the patrols as "The Wild" kind of irritates me. The Wild has animals and shit to do, people to talk to, it's not an almost barren landscape. ----------------------------------------------------------------------Side Note About Map Size/Flow------------------------------------------------------- Anyone else feel like the maps are just made up of separate tiny "conflict zones"? Where you shoot people then have to use your sparrow to get to the next area. I feel like this breaks the action. And the stretches in-between these areas is too long to walk so it feels like a bunch of stopping and going. I'd rather wonder through a dense forest or something that doesn't require ridding your sparrow 50 yards, getting off, shoot/collect stuff, then driving to the next spot, repeat. Edit: Bungie Please add separate starting positions for the patrols. Starting in the same area is getting old.

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  • Good point. There is a good bit of dead space. Maybe a bit too much. I do enjoy the sense of having space that needs a vehicle. There's something satisfying about the sparrow and zipping around: even on the slower ones. But the pacing does indeed get a little choppy when you can kill everything in your line of site in 1 minute. Then you're forced onto the sparrow to look for more targets. Well said.

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