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originally posted in: On Community Feedback
Edited by FoMan123: 10/22/2014 9:54:45 PM
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[quote][b]Disclaimer[/b] - I am not a Bungie employee, representative, spokesperson of any kind. I have no "insider" information. The "Ninja" badge on my nameplate simply denotes that I am a volunteer forum moderator. (most of you forum vets already know this, but just wanted to be sure some of our newer folks don't think that this is official or some kind of Bungie PR/marketing thing)[/quote] Guys and gals, especially those of you complaining: If you expect DeeJ to read and respond to your long posts re Destiny feedback, then you have the time to read this post and give it some consideration. Please do. Having been pretty involved in this community for over 8 years now, and being one of the few who has the responsibility of dealing with the community on a large, broad scale (rather than only participating in topics that interest you, like most community members have the luxury of doing), I feel like it's important to say three things here. I'll try to keep it reasonable in length: [b]1. The volume of feedback from the Community is overwhelming. Responding to everybody is impossible.[/b] This is easy to prove/demonstrate, and anyone can try it. Go to #Help for just 15 minutes and try to answer questions. When a question pops up in #Help with no replies, go find the answer (it's usually available somewhere), come back, and type the response in a polite and helpful way. Then try to answer as many as you can in 15 minutes. Then imagine that this level of volume and work NEVER stops. 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Sounds like a lot for one guy (or even a small team) to deal with, right? Well keep in mind -- that's just 15 minutes in only [i]one[/i] forum. DeeJ's responsibilities have him keeping track not only of #Destiny, #Feedback, #Help, #Clans, #Bungie, and #Community, but also of dozens (maybe hundreds) of other Destiny-focused gaming communities around the Internet and with gamers around the world contributing 24/7, in a dozen language. Add in live tweets, Twitch chats, and social media with the comments of millions of people who have bought the game, and you can see that the volume of commentary is insane. It might be possible to monitor all or most of it, but responding to all of it is simply not going to happen. It's probably unreasonable to expect a response at all -- it is DEFINITELY unreasonable to expect an in-depth, detailed response to your particular comments. Still doesn't mean he (and, in turn, Bungie) is/are not listening. [b]2. Specific answers and future plans could be more harmful than helpful.[/b] This one may stir the pot a little bit, but DeeJ's broader answers ("we're listening," "we're working to identify and resolve issues," etc.) are far more preferable than specific answers ("we've heard your feedback about X issue and we'll have it fixed by doing Y in Z number of days"), in my opinion. Why? Because this complaint: "Bungie won't tell us what they're planning with any specificity!" is far better than this complaint: "Bungie LIED to us and made us false promises!" You are sophisticated gamers. You already know that game development is a dynamic, ever-changing process. One tweak here might break another feature there (weapon balance). Patching one obvious exploit may simply lead players to discover 10 new ones (loot caves). Projects to deliver new content can be delayed by test problems, bugs, employee departures, and a whole host of other things. Sometimes they get scrapped entirely for any variety of reasons. Yet despite claiming to realize this, Destiny players around the world have been quick to seize on pre-launch marketing materials and point out exactly what didn't make it into the game at launch. Take your pick -- "That's all gonna be explorable space," "Out here in the wild, this is how we talk," gear trading, factions, customization, etc. The resounding chorus has been accusations of incompetence, greed, or lies on Bungie's part. Yet every gamer claims to already know everything I mentioned in the previous paragraph. And just in case you didn't, every single marketing piece that came out pre-launch was marked with disclaimers like "All items, details, names, and pieces of random trivia are subject to change" and "Work in progress." How quickly some folks seem to forget this when it's convenient for them. But here we are again, right here in this thread and in hundreds of others, with some folks demanding, requesting, and sometimes practically begging for Bungie to "lie" to them by giving details of what they're working on. All of this despite knowing full well that these things might be changed, scrapped, or added onto. And remember that there is a demonstrable history in this community of some members making every difference between "still-in-development material" --> "final material" a reason to accuse Bungie of lying. I'd urge you all to put yourself in the game dev's shoes right now instead of your own. And I'd argue that DeeJ's broad answers and reassurances that Bungie is paying attention and listening are a far more preferable way to proceed -- you might not get as much information up front, but you won't feel like DeeJ/Bungie makes false promises that they can't or won't deliver on. [b]3. Bungie is clearly working hard on Destiny.[/b] This is something that I doubt any of you would dispute, but that I suspect many of you don't remember. Bungie doesn't want to make this a bad gaming experience for you. Bungie wants you to have fun playing the game; they're not just sitting around counting piles cash and laughing maniacally. It is BLATANTLY clear that they are still working their asses off on this game and future content. Numerous employees regularly respond in these forums. There have been 4 patches to the game already and two long-term special events. New content is on the way. Bungie employees entered into this industry specifically to make great games with a great team. If they only wanted to make money off of you, they'd be in a different line of business. Or making mobile games like Candy Crush. These guys and gals are gamers just like you, and they play games in the same way you do. When things are not ideal, they want them addressed just like you do. But as noted many times already, these things just take time and may (in fact are LIKELY to) experience delays in some cases. In closing, my advice is to be critical and provide your feedback as thoroughly as you can. Good, critical community feedback can truly make a difference between good games and great ones, and nobody knows this better than Bungie (Halo vets will remember the old Optimatch Forum here on Bungie.net). But at the same time, please be patient, understanding, and reasonable. You're all still here because you're all still playing Destiny -- keep that in mind too and ask yourselves why. Thinking about the process of game development in addition to your own preferences and desires will help avoid temper flare-ups and anger that do not help anyone and, in fact, might make this whole process a lot harder.
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  • Edited by GreyMouser73: 10/23/2014 4:34:55 PM
    "However an unsatisfied customer is not a returning customer. Also not one who buys additional DLC. " Oh, if only this were true. If this were actually true, the quality of most games would be MUCH better. No, people pre-order. That shows they literally do not care about quality as much as they care about hype. If Bungie sees sales slipping, that will give them plenty of incentive to take a good hard look at what the reviewers are saying.

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  • They may as well care for it now, because it is harder to get people "back" then keep them in.

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  • You ninjas should really start closing/deleting rant threads

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  • If people would just start ignoring blatant trolling/attention-seeking rants there wouldn't be a problem to start with.

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  • Ah, eloquence what a lovely and refreshing thing. I enjoyed reading that post, I really did. It is a lot of stuff that people forget often.

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  • thanks for your deep explanation post. however you are stating some points like "the devs are working hard" that you probably can't verify. Or did you spend weeks with the devs in the Bungie Studios? You claim the devs want us to have fun with the game. Great. Well how about doing something the community wants? Instead of forcing people to play in a certain way? I could go on and on but I will stop here.

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  • Lol you have giving a better post to the community than deej has. But more than half of what was promised isn't in game. The real game will probably be out Ina year or so after patching but this is just the years hottest 7.

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  • Dude did you even read anything. NOTHING was promised. Everything you seen in the past e3 etc. was subject to change

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  • It is kind of implied that when you advertise something even with a subject to change a majority of what you show to the consumer would come with in the product. They sold their game on false advertisement. Where is the story? Grimore cards? Ha they couldn't even manage to make that accessible in game. If you're ok with how they went about it then you have very low standards for your products. I would understand if they had a statement of how they changed a lot of what was shown to be in the product but they didn't because after all this is a business and money rules not your fan base. They claim to be listing but they keep failing to answer the major questions.... What happen, why where these basic systems not implace, what is the vision of the game now? Well regardless the amount of play time this game is getting is diminishing pretty fast as me my irl friends and many people here (that I talk to) have just stopped like they did. And probably won't till dlc time.

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  • Im not even sure about that. There are so many big issues like bad story presentation, bad overly repetitive mission designs, no proximity chat, broken loot system etc that would take a huge effort to fix. Perhaps it might be done with Destiny 2 or 3 but I highly doubt that this installment will see the light

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  • Most productive post ever.

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  • Seems like alot more honest response then most. Fair. Concise. And not fan boyish. A+++

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  • Yep sorry the next patch is something that can easily be reported on as long as the devs send DeeJ notes on the changes making the final build. He can ask them for definites that are going in and I know they can give him that. Take a look at Marvel Heroes and THAT is how information should be provided and how game devs should be talking to the community.

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  • Assume all you want buddy, but I trust the devs and the community leaders over you any day.

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  • Edited by Mittay12: 10/23/2014 7:09:00 AM
    Yep like that's worked out for everyone. Good luck with those trusty Nigerian 'traders' when they email ya!

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  • Are you kidding me? You literally are assuming based on your supposed knowledge of the inner workings of Bungie, that it will be simple for them to do the feedback and give information the way you want. Just stop.

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  • Well said, recognize people ;)

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    I would reply to this with an angry answer but this is a ninja, they actually do crap and might just ban me, whether temporary or permanent. I applaud the ninjas for actually working hard, which is sad considering they're volunteers. Btw, saying the 2 events were actually new or fun or interesting made me laugh.

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  • Edited by kickxass: 10/23/2014 6:41:36 AM
    Interesting?!?! No... But I do love my Iron Banner Armor! Seems I'm one of the few I know who even cared to get it though. Annnnd I had to drop to 27 then re level my Banner armor and then do it all again with Raid Gear Yay! No the best replay system to say the least.

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  • Well said, sir. Like I've stated previously, I'm more worried for those I play with when it comes to the constantly stated problem. I love Destiny. I just worry that without some assurances that specific aspects are going to change for the better, I'm going to lose my various raiding buddies due to their lack of patience. I know DeeJ is doing what he can as are the devs. People have somewhat blown it out of proportion I'm sure but I see the truth to what a lot of them are trying to get at. Hats off to Bungie. I just hope it can continue on more glorious than even planned. I'm not quitting anytime soon, I just hope my fellow guardians can hold on.

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  • That is fantastic!

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  • Really now? How are you working hard when there is nothing to -blam!-ing do?! More updates for content that actually mean something apart from Queens' or Iron Banner Events. All those are, are just a sad excuse for more bounties to do per day. Convince your worthless publisher to stop being so money-hungry and give us content that actually means something!

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  • Edited by Textually Harass: 10/23/2014 4:42:50 AM
    Honestly foman i think all the gamimg community wants is some honesty. A simple "we didnt deliver the game we(and many of you) envisioned but were working on rectifying that" would go a long way. Follow that up with something free and wed be pretty much back to square 1.

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  • I could definitely concur with this. The story was a bit short lived. Admittedly I put 20 hours in on the first day.

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  • Edited by FoMan123: 10/23/2014 4:59:56 AM
    Hey, long time no talk! Thanks for the response; it does seem that some people want something along these lines. I just wanted to give folks some reminders about some particular specific complaints.

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