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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Jurgen Blitz: 10/6/2014 11:15:08 AM
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Bungie, let´s discuss Trading openly and politely

Dear Bungie, We know you guys got a lot of frak recently and bad rep, even among your own community. Granted, a lot of things in this game are badly designed. But, I believe that you want to make things better. Even if it goes step by step. Things like the weapon correction coming soon and the fix of the Cryptarch system are small but welcome steps, and it goes to show that you, in fact, liste to the community (even if you never answer). So let´s discuss trading openly and politely, like gentlemen. I don´t know if trading was taken away by command of Activision. Obviously, if that was the case, you wouldn´t say it outloud or have much power over the matter, so I´ll let it be. But let´s assume for a second that you really thought that the game would be better off without it. Bungie, let me put this in the simplest way possible: Implement trading, because [b]EVERYONE is going to win[/b] and be happier with the game. [b]Especially you guys[/b], because our happiness will give you a better reputation and gives us incentives to stay in the game. [b]1) It will make players less frustrated with the RNG loot/decoding system[/b] Last time that Xur came around, I got an exotic helmet engram, thinking that, since I have a Warlock and a Titan, I had good chances of getting something I could actually use. And what are the odds: I got the Mask of the Third Man, a [u]Hunter[/u] piece. I have it saved on my bank/vault for now, in case something changes, but my face when that helmet popped out… There are a lot of Hunter users out there who wanted this exact helmet. Now my only chances to find a use for it would be to a) create a Hunter (can´t be bothered to bring another char to 20, don´t have the time) or b) to dismantle it and get shards (which would be a pity for such a unique and beautiful helmet). But what if I could give it away? What if a Hunter had got the, for example, Helm of Inmost Light, and we could trade it and both get what we want? And the same goes for some Sapphire Wire that I have: there´s no use that I can make out of it, but others could. [b]EDIT:[/b] so as some have suggested.... yeah, bad example, because having exotics going around like candy would have been a bad idea. But I also got a legendary helmet for Warlocks and legendary gloves for Hunters. Items with that rarity could still be traded, although with some kind of temporal or numerical limitation to avoid breaking the balance. [b]2) It will make the Tower actually be “social”, and give players new ways to interact[/b] Right now we just go to the Tower to get rewards, bounties, and then head back to orbit. But there´s nothing truly [u]SOCIAL[/u] that we can do there, except play football and dance. If trading was implemented, players would gather there to trade, make deals, etc. The Tower will actually become a meeting spot, instead of just being a transitional point between instance and instance. In MMO´s, in-game economies that allow players to trade materials between one another using different “currencies” (instead of a bidirectional model between player and game with one single economy, like the model we have now) are a mechanic that allow people to socialize and even form new bonds as players. In other games I played, I would end up having “regular traders” with which I talked sometimes, teamed up to play, etc. [b]3) Players will now have a reason to explore the vast maps you have created.[/b] Out of boredom I once went to old Russia to explore unseen routes. And man, you guys have created BEAUTIFUL maps and worlds. Outstanding. But that´s the thing: most players [i]don’t have any valid reason to go anywhere[/i] except the usual routes “A to B and C”. Yes, there are patrol missions, but they are also set on restricted routes. However, stuff like Spirit Bloom, Relic Iron, Spin Metal and Helium Filaments are pretty much all over the place, and so are chests. With trading, some people would devote some time to farm these R&D materials, exploring the world in the meantime and finding some of the little hidden areas and gems out there. [b]4) It will provide us with a legitimate shortcut to avoid some of the grind and repetition[/b] Yes, we are meant to climb our way to the top via hard work. But when you finish an instance and all you get is a blue engram, how are you meant to progress? Doing it five more times? If your answer is “yes, that´s how it´s meant to be”, then Bungie, please be aware that people can get tired of repetition, and it is usually a main reason for many people to quit games. With trading, if I need that final Ascendant Shard to upgrade my armor, instead of repeating a strike or raid that I have already done that day, I can check my vault and see if I can offer something to a fellow player. And if I don´t, perhaps I can gather some stuff that he/she needs. But as of now, our only option is to repeat stuff over and over and[i] zzzZZZZZzzz[/i]…. -------------------------- Now, if you think trading is not a good idea, here´s three arguments that I can picture: two of them that you have already stated, and one that could be the real reason: [b]- We want players to earn their gear, and feel like each piece was the outcome of a great victory![/b] Which would be a great argument, if the game didn´t have a RNG loot system that sometimes even seems to penalize performing great, as seen on [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzopWRXK_r4]this video[/url] or as many of us have seen when the worst guy in our Crucible team gets a Legendary. And hey, I was that guy once. Now I got better, but I was “that guy”. And I was happy about it, but it felt incredibly unfair [b]EVEN TO ME.[/b] If that is your main reason, then change the loot system, because right now the actual in-game effort, performance and teamwork mean very little when it´s time to collect rewards. Or why did you think that people exploited The Cave? [b]- We want to avoid having gold spammers![/b] Then how about this: restrict trading to ITEMS only, and no buying stuff from one another through Glimmer. And if you want to make it even more secure, enable a code system that lets the game know what items were bought from vendors, and which ones came from loot, and restrict the trade only to items that were collected (like Spinmetal, Blooms, etc) or drops. This would prevent people with higher faction levels to simply buy stuff from vendors and use that for trade against players that haven´t stacked that many rep. And taking Glimmer out of the picture for trading is also a good idea, because the Glimmer yield can be artificially increase by use of Ether Seeds, Black Wax Idols etc. and therefore give an edge to players that use them and have them, over those who don´t. Bungie, if this is the main reason, there are ways to prevent malpractices in trading. Sure, the “rotten apples” are crafty and could find ways but, as we say in Spain, right now “the righteous are being punished because of the sinners”. And[i] this feels bad[/i], man. [b]- We want people to grind over and over for stuff, spending more time in our game.[/b] Hey, you won´t say it out loud but THIS could be another reason for you guys. In that case, and as I said before, don´t underestimate your own players. People can get very tired of repetition and limitation. And a lot of players including myself are already wearing tired of the little variation of the game, and it´s not even month 2 of a game that allegedly has a 10-year plan. In short, Bungie… I believe in the phrase that says “better late than never”. Some things have gone wrong, but I believe you guys have the power and willingness to make some of them right again. As a closing line, there´s something that you have to consider. These next 2 months are going to be crucial for you, because that is how much time there´s left until the first expansion comes out. Whatever happens to the game until that, in terms of right vs wrong changes, will determine [i]how many people actually stick around and give the upcoming content a chance[/i]. If people get bored to death before that, chances are that they will leave the game altogether and never even consider getting those expansions. And every player wants trade to be implemented. Give us this, and you make us happy. Give us this, and you give us freedom. Keep it away… and what we get is boredom and lack of interest. [i]To everyone that has made it this far: sorry if there are mistakes or incoherent lines, English is not my native tongue and it can get hard to express some stuff at times.[/i]

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  • But what about duplication?

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    • Dismantle your extras and move on

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      • I'll start by saying for the most, part I believe your statements are noble and have good intentions. It can be frustrating to get items that you don't need and yet players are still looking for them. I picked up lucky raspberry on my titan the first week I started from a random drop and broke it down. So trading items only MIGHT be ok at first. I would foresee the currency being shards/relics but that's just my prediction. Then you would still have those "farmers". These farmers would collect mass amounts of popular gear and sell them for real cash. If this is how a person wants to play the game then by all means go for it. I could understand buying a DLC and getting new items and content, but buys that item you want just cause you don't feel like working for it is kind of sad. Nevertheless, this will still occur through trade. Last, even though everyone has the same chance at drops if they are close enough to the mobs, I feel as though bots will be developed and swarm the servers. They will most likely sit in one location and rack up kills until they run out of ammo. Then rinse and repeat. How is this different from a cave farmer you ask? A bit could farm for days non-stop and break down everything they do not need while a gamer will probably get bored after a few hours. Your reasons for developing a trade system are legit and noble, however, this system puts too much of a risk on the game itself. Do you really want to obtain that extremely rare piece of armor and then see some store bought scrub with it the next day? The amount of work for the developers to implement a trade system and deter these problems would take a very long time and would be very expensive. Risk > Profit

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      • What the heck would you trade something for, glimmer?

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      • WTF did I just read?

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      • my only issue is that if trading is enabled, it means drops have to be tailored to be a good rate for the entire market, not the player. what this means is that drops become even rarer, you will be even more heavily reliant on vendors and xur, because bungie can't (this is a made up example) make one in 100 mobs drop a legendary, because that means that after a few weeks, the market will be full of useless legendaries that nobody wants! they'll have to make it one in 10,000 mobs, so that the community constantly needs to find these items. Diablo suffered the same issue, trading = bad drop rate, people had no fun because you'd almost never get anything, they abolished the trading house, there's still player to player trading but it's only really used for incredibley rare items.. meanwhile they made it so that if you play the game you will get drops (because people now had to rely on getting drops to progress, just as in destiny), and you start having fun again. issue is that they're still tweaking the balance, the latest change is a step in the right direction, trade i think would scarper all of that.

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        • Haha then people would make money off destiny "ill trade you this exotic weapon for $10" and the lifespan of the game is dramatically decreased so no.

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        • I do not want a trading system. It's bad enough that Xur sells an exotic one week and everyone in the game buys it. Implement a trading system and everyone will have every weapon. Might as well just put a vendor in the tower that sells everything that is available in the game. Silly.

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        • Yes Bungie take a look at Guild Wars 2. You guys already have a post master, let us use it!! Everyone is commenting "why would you want to play the game then" wellll games like WoW and GW2 have trade and people have played them forever... Just make some items account bound, soul bound, so once you equip it you can't trade it. Even if you only made it so that you can trade only after a strike or a mission in the score screen. Also making an item have the appearance of an item you have already had would be AWESOME. I hate that all I care about is if something has 1 more light then the other thing I had. I want to make my character look cool and transmute some armor to match my full set.

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        • Honestly i find trading not fun because the reward of getting the item itself is way better. Its not really hard to get legendaries if you do the crucible or high lvl missions. Sure getting items for other class types is annoying but its upgrade material so i still am fine with it. You got to work for your gear, and that's how every game should be. That's why Diablo removed trading legendaries and set items. It's all about the time and effort you put in. I'm not saying its a bad idea I just like the idea of earning it instead of having people just get items without doing the work. But the idea of having general speak or topic speak in game to have more interactions in the tower would be awesome. There are tons of players that don't even know about clans and what not and would help them develop as players substantially.

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        • If you could just trade then what would be the reason for you to do anything?

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        • There is nothing to guarantee people will not "give away legendaries." The lack of trading supports meritocracy, which is part of the reason I play this game. Unlike those who are against matchmaking, I want everyone to have an equal chance to play all content. That said, I only want the winners to have the rewards. Those who cannot get, should not have.

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          • I like it how it is, it keeps everyone busy, you can look at a guardians gear and level and think, "that guy earned that shit, good on him" So no.. Keep trading out of the game.. What i would like to see is more Crucible maps, but no doubt they're already doing so, and maybe level cap to 40?

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          • hey guys let's stop farming, now we have a new hobby let's go around asking if they want to trade their legendary weapons and gear!!! [spoiler]about 10 people follow me around begging to trade my gear and weapons[/spoiler]

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          • In every game that i have ever played that had a trading system in place, a strong black market was present. That being said, i'm not TOTALLY opposed to it.

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            • I like puppies.

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              • No trading. Noob.

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                • I completely agree with [url]http://www.bungie.net/en/User/Profile?id=6951602[/url] on this one. Trading needs to be implemented & implemented quickly. Attention spans are incredibly short, especially when someone is forced to repeat the same thing over and over and over and over and over again. There are a million and one ways to minimize exploitation of a trading system, granted exploitation is bound to happen. It happens now in over forms.

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                  • Trading would ruin this game... Borderlands and Dead Island are good examples. I play online one time and people throw modded weapons at my feet. Besides I have three classes and all three have exotics and legendaries. I wouldn't give them away if I could

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                  • Edited by FAITH12: 10/6/2014 11:59:46 PM
                    No trading, absolutely not. This game isn't supposed to be easy. Earn your stuff. My opinion of course. With trading you and your "buddies" decide what you get, the Destiny dice are unbiased, and unbiased is the ultimate fair factor.

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                    • No. Bought it.

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                    • Not EVERYONE would like it. It would just lead to people getting gear for free off friends or for real money. I earned my gear to get to 30, people shouldn't be getting free passes.

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                      • I do not want to see trading in this game. I don't want everything too quickly. I love the satisfaction of getting a good drop or buying a nice weapon after grinding out Vanguard marks. I have 7 exotics and 8 legendary weapons. I've bought most and i've been rewarded with some. I have two of the exact same Patience and Time exotic sniper rifle right now. One I earned as a Nightfall reward. The other was a legendary engram that was a Tiger Strike reward. Sure, the luck was in my favor, but I still put in the work, playing missions I knew had good reward potential. Now, would it be nice to trade the extra (useless) Patience and Time to somebody who has 2 of Plan C or something? Sure. But I'd rather not see trading complicate this game, and I also don't want to get stuff too quickly and easily. I mean, I already have 2 of Patience and Time, I'm sure it's just a matter of time before I get Plan C. Trading is not something I want to see, and I am one of the people who could surely benefit seeing as I have exotic titan gear and legendary hunter gear, but I am a Warlock. But you know what? My Warlock is decked out in Exotic and Legendary too. Because I play the game instead of wasting too much time on the forum asking for trades, ie, "the easy way out". Kids these days.... Furthermore, the people that bitch about not getting better rewards for being the best in PVP.... Have you played real fps multiplayers? Like BF and COD... All you get is a stupid MVP ribbon. And those are primarily pvp games, with a campaign on the side. Destiny is primarily a pve game with pvp on the side. So what in Heaven's name makes you think you deserve a badass gun or armor every time you top the leaderboards???? Take your random reward like everybody else. I don't expect a better reward than the other two guys if I'm "the best" in the strike we just did. We are all rewarded random gifts for putting in the time. Then we use our marks and rep to purchase what we want from the vendors. Why don't the youngans grasp this?

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                        • [quote]And every player wants trade to be implemented. Give us this, and you make us happy. Give us this, and you give us freedom. Keep it away… and what we get is boredom and lack of interest.[/quote] No. No Bungie, I do not want trade and this man is lying to you saying everyone wants it:

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                        • F?#k trading. :D

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                        • Why stop at trading OP? Why not just ask for free lvl 30s, all the gear you could ever want, and whatever shirt deej is wearing as a trophie? Trading will kill this game. Now stop and kill some Psions. They need a good killin.

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