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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Jurgen Blitz: 10/6/2014 11:15:08 AM
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Bungie, let´s discuss Trading openly and politely

Dear Bungie, We know you guys got a lot of frak recently and bad rep, even among your own community. Granted, a lot of things in this game are badly designed. But, I believe that you want to make things better. Even if it goes step by step. Things like the weapon correction coming soon and the fix of the Cryptarch system are small but welcome steps, and it goes to show that you, in fact, liste to the community (even if you never answer). So let´s discuss trading openly and politely, like gentlemen. I don´t know if trading was taken away by command of Activision. Obviously, if that was the case, you wouldn´t say it outloud or have much power over the matter, so I´ll let it be. But let´s assume for a second that you really thought that the game would be better off without it. Bungie, let me put this in the simplest way possible: Implement trading, because [b]EVERYONE is going to win[/b] and be happier with the game. [b]Especially you guys[/b], because our happiness will give you a better reputation and gives us incentives to stay in the game. [b]1) It will make players less frustrated with the RNG loot/decoding system[/b] Last time that Xur came around, I got an exotic helmet engram, thinking that, since I have a Warlock and a Titan, I had good chances of getting something I could actually use. And what are the odds: I got the Mask of the Third Man, a [u]Hunter[/u] piece. I have it saved on my bank/vault for now, in case something changes, but my face when that helmet popped out… There are a lot of Hunter users out there who wanted this exact helmet. Now my only chances to find a use for it would be to a) create a Hunter (can´t be bothered to bring another char to 20, don´t have the time) or b) to dismantle it and get shards (which would be a pity for such a unique and beautiful helmet). But what if I could give it away? What if a Hunter had got the, for example, Helm of Inmost Light, and we could trade it and both get what we want? And the same goes for some Sapphire Wire that I have: there´s no use that I can make out of it, but others could. [b]EDIT:[/b] so as some have suggested.... yeah, bad example, because having exotics going around like candy would have been a bad idea. But I also got a legendary helmet for Warlocks and legendary gloves for Hunters. Items with that rarity could still be traded, although with some kind of temporal or numerical limitation to avoid breaking the balance. [b]2) It will make the Tower actually be “social”, and give players new ways to interact[/b] Right now we just go to the Tower to get rewards, bounties, and then head back to orbit. But there´s nothing truly [u]SOCIAL[/u] that we can do there, except play football and dance. If trading was implemented, players would gather there to trade, make deals, etc. The Tower will actually become a meeting spot, instead of just being a transitional point between instance and instance. In MMO´s, in-game economies that allow players to trade materials between one another using different “currencies” (instead of a bidirectional model between player and game with one single economy, like the model we have now) are a mechanic that allow people to socialize and even form new bonds as players. In other games I played, I would end up having “regular traders” with which I talked sometimes, teamed up to play, etc. [b]3) Players will now have a reason to explore the vast maps you have created.[/b] Out of boredom I once went to old Russia to explore unseen routes. And man, you guys have created BEAUTIFUL maps and worlds. Outstanding. But that´s the thing: most players [i]don’t have any valid reason to go anywhere[/i] except the usual routes “A to B and C”. Yes, there are patrol missions, but they are also set on restricted routes. However, stuff like Spirit Bloom, Relic Iron, Spin Metal and Helium Filaments are pretty much all over the place, and so are chests. With trading, some people would devote some time to farm these R&D materials, exploring the world in the meantime and finding some of the little hidden areas and gems out there. [b]4) It will provide us with a legitimate shortcut to avoid some of the grind and repetition[/b] Yes, we are meant to climb our way to the top via hard work. But when you finish an instance and all you get is a blue engram, how are you meant to progress? Doing it five more times? If your answer is “yes, that´s how it´s meant to be”, then Bungie, please be aware that people can get tired of repetition, and it is usually a main reason for many people to quit games. With trading, if I need that final Ascendant Shard to upgrade my armor, instead of repeating a strike or raid that I have already done that day, I can check my vault and see if I can offer something to a fellow player. And if I don´t, perhaps I can gather some stuff that he/she needs. But as of now, our only option is to repeat stuff over and over and[i] zzzZZZZZzzz[/i]…. -------------------------- Now, if you think trading is not a good idea, here´s three arguments that I can picture: two of them that you have already stated, and one that could be the real reason: [b]- We want players to earn their gear, and feel like each piece was the outcome of a great victory![/b] Which would be a great argument, if the game didn´t have a RNG loot system that sometimes even seems to penalize performing great, as seen on [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzopWRXK_r4]this video[/url] or as many of us have seen when the worst guy in our Crucible team gets a Legendary. And hey, I was that guy once. Now I got better, but I was “that guy”. And I was happy about it, but it felt incredibly unfair [b]EVEN TO ME.[/b] If that is your main reason, then change the loot system, because right now the actual in-game effort, performance and teamwork mean very little when it´s time to collect rewards. Or why did you think that people exploited The Cave? [b]- We want to avoid having gold spammers![/b] Then how about this: restrict trading to ITEMS only, and no buying stuff from one another through Glimmer. And if you want to make it even more secure, enable a code system that lets the game know what items were bought from vendors, and which ones came from loot, and restrict the trade only to items that were collected (like Spinmetal, Blooms, etc) or drops. This would prevent people with higher faction levels to simply buy stuff from vendors and use that for trade against players that haven´t stacked that many rep. And taking Glimmer out of the picture for trading is also a good idea, because the Glimmer yield can be artificially increase by use of Ether Seeds, Black Wax Idols etc. and therefore give an edge to players that use them and have them, over those who don´t. Bungie, if this is the main reason, there are ways to prevent malpractices in trading. Sure, the “rotten apples” are crafty and could find ways but, as we say in Spain, right now “the righteous are being punished because of the sinners”. And[i] this feels bad[/i], man. [b]- We want people to grind over and over for stuff, spending more time in our game.[/b] Hey, you won´t say it out loud but THIS could be another reason for you guys. In that case, and as I said before, don´t underestimate your own players. People can get very tired of repetition and limitation. And a lot of players including myself are already wearing tired of the little variation of the game, and it´s not even month 2 of a game that allegedly has a 10-year plan. In short, Bungie… I believe in the phrase that says “better late than never”. Some things have gone wrong, but I believe you guys have the power and willingness to make some of them right again. As a closing line, there´s something that you have to consider. These next 2 months are going to be crucial for you, because that is how much time there´s left until the first expansion comes out. Whatever happens to the game until that, in terms of right vs wrong changes, will determine [i]how many people actually stick around and give the upcoming content a chance[/i]. If people get bored to death before that, chances are that they will leave the game altogether and never even consider getting those expansions. And every player wants trade to be implemented. Give us this, and you make us happy. Give us this, and you give us freedom. Keep it away… and what we get is boredom and lack of interest. [i]To everyone that has made it this far: sorry if there are mistakes or incoherent lines, English is not my native tongue and it can get hard to express some stuff at times.[/i]

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  • Edited by Abdulelah: 10/7/2014 4:58:37 PM
    I agree 100% . Bungie must activate a Trading Market

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    • Could just make it that exotics could only be traded with exotics, legendaries with legendaries etc, shards with energy, something like that. Then nobody is getting extra exotics/legendaries they are just swapping around those that are already in the game. To stop the spam/any chat you either open up an in game shop with the items you want to swap and someone comes along, makes an offer and you can accept or decline, or you have a preset message like when someone finds a legendary engram/shards and the little white text appears in the bottom left corner saying something like "Krazykid would like to trade 'name of item' for a 'name of item' so that everyone knows exactly what is wanted and people can't spam chat with any rubbish. + limit it to one post a minute or something. Would be a very basic trade but effective.

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    • The only thing i'd like to be able to do is trade with a fireteam member, if we both just finished the same mission and want to trade. I have no intention of making another class. I've thought about it. But I tend to just scrap everything i get for another class. However, if I could trade with that titan, who got a hunter piece after the mission, that'd be cool. Otherwise, Trading will ruin the game. :( The quicker everyone gets to the end content, or lack there of, the less people that will continue to play. If everyone in the game, plays the VoG and gets what they need to hit 30, what incentive do they have to play the game?

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      • you have a solid point but they could make certain type of gear bound by the player its how lots of mmorpgs make it work. Im not saying this because my gear isnt that great or im lazy im not even agreeing with the tradeing, i have horrible luck period so the RNG sucks for me but when i finally get that legendary (never got exotic through rewards or drops just the coin vendor) i get wicked excited, even though like last night it was for a lock. I love this game cause its beautiful and it takes 2 fun games and merge it together I'm not even made about the whole disc content being locked for DLC they do this to make money of course everyone wants everything free but a company cant thrive if its giving everything away. All in all what ever is decided imma just roll with it because i enjoy this game and every rebuttle has another its a never ending cycle that will never be solved with a solid answer.

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      • I completely disagree with the OP and his opinion that everyone will be better off with in-game trading enabled. It's not appropriate in this game, and in fact it invites a lot of problems we don't have to deal with at the moment. In the case of Destiny, the gear inventory is not nearly varied or large enough to even justify such a system, not to mention that there is no means currently to prevent a character who just made level 20 (which can be done in a day or two) from instantly becoming level 28 with a few pieces of traded armor. It's been discussed at length in numerous game design articles that statistically, players who feel entitled to have everything the game has to offer right away quickly become bored and leave the game if there is no sense of achievement behind acquiring said gear or level. In other words, it's not healthy for the game to allow players to get whatever they want. Furthermore, in-game economies can adversely affect the game experience itself through such practices as selling items/gear for real money, which invariably invites all manner of negative behaviors, such as scamming. This in turn increases the support costs for the game studio when they are required to address player submitted tickets for stolen items, investigating reports of criminal enterprise (e.g. someone selling their intellectual property for financial gain without consent) or player ToS/EULA violations (e.g. scamming), and then being forced to apply appropriate disciplinary measures against the accounts of those players. These are all problems (and costs) that Bungie and the players of this game fortunately do not have to deal with currently. Personally, I'd rather Bungie save that money and spend it on developing DLC and quality of life improvements. When you ask yourself what are you actually gaining through an in-game trading system in Destiny, the answer is convenience. It's convenient to trade those Warlock raid boots you got on your Titan for Titan raid boots some Warlock in your clan got. But there are better ways to address that if Bungie makes some smart changes to their RNG system, such as only awarding class specific gear in raids or from engrams. I'm far from alone when I say that I'd rather see them do something like that than implement a trade system that only ends up hurting what is an otherwise great game in need of a few minor changes.

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        • I would like a trading system. I have lots of exotics/legendaries that i'm willing to give to my clan mates so they can gear up. What i think they are afraid is the rise of a black market, where you can go and buy some stuff for real money from some other guy.

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        • [quote]Trading will make EVERYONE happy.[/quote] I wasn't aware you knew how I felt about this game, for that matter, I wasn't aware you knew everyone's feelings about this game. I am really getting tired of these posts. Stop making statements as if you speak for everyone about something YOU want. I don't agree with this at all, and you preaching it to Bungie as if it's a necessity that everyone wants is insulting. All this complaining and begging for changes is working, but at this rate it'll be for the worse. I like this game and I don't want people who bought this game and found out it wasn't for them changing it into something else. I don't care how nicely you request these stupid ideas, I don't want them, and I'm assuming there's a lot of other people that don't agree with this post either.

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          • I don't think that the lack of trading has made the game boring. I really enjoy acquiring and improving my own gear.

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          • didnt read this whole thing, just the title, but no..lets not even discuss trading, it will ruin the game...period. you will have people all over the game who never did anything like the VOG and be full equipped with raid gear (just one example of thousands)..no thanks..you need to earn your keep, and thats the way bungie wants it as well

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          • Tl;dr theres not enough loot for a trade system. Especially since you can only equip one exotic per armor and weapon

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            • We can use the STRANGE COIN as a currency

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            • Edited by TheGuyNamedAngel: 10/7/2014 4:53:18 PM
              Des-tih-knee Trading armor game [url=http://www.yugioh.com][b][u]THIS[/u][/b][/url]

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            • Edited by Foghammer: 10/7/2014 4:53:34 PM
              I dunno. I totally get what everyone is saying about the impact on the "economy" of the game (although the in-game economy is kind of wonky anyway). At the same time, there are a lot of minor conveniences that wouldn't wreck the game that I would like to have: the ability to give members of my fireteam consumables, to loan them glimmer so they can snag that rare ship/emblem they want, and I am that guy who would rather give his friend the exotic that dropped for another class than to break it down for a mere 2 ascendant shards (had to do this a couple of nights ago and it still stings)... I dunno. I am on the fence. If they implemented trading, I would be okay with it, and if they don't, I won't be upset by it. But like I've said before, I don't think they will, for reasons related to reinforcement of the grind. EDIT: Also, of course, my opinions are those of a non-PvPer. I enjoy playing co-op with friends more than anything.

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            • Trading will just create a bunch of new problems....

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            • Well.. I am against tradeing.. Would just make things way to Easy.

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            • Trading is a terrible idea all together all it does is breed RMT and spam. If you want something useful how about being able to drop ammo packs on the ground for other players on your team to pick up or a support class that can.

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            • I am, politely, against Trading. I vote against it.

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              • Trading=No thank you

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                • Edited by RCAoG: 10/7/2014 4:21:16 PM
                  Make it like every other MMO, make an auction house. Make it so that everyone can trade anything they want to for in game currensy. Problem solved.

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                • make it so you can only trade exotics for exotics, to prevent RMT... problem solved

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                • This is a very controversial topic for me, as I am on both sides of the argument. I want trading because my buddies get gear that they will either never use or not use for a long time. One friend recently got an legendary weapon that really wasn't his kind of weapon. Me? I love that type of weapon, and since we're good friends, he would have given it to me for almost nothing, though I had a helmet I want to give him. On the other side, earning our gear makes it, feel more like we actually have it, that it was ours and we made it so. Bungie just needs to better the loot system.

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                • I politely disagree. However, if trading does make it into the game, I would like to see the following: 1) Trading hub. A guardian can trade his exotic weapon or armor for a selection of items/materials that Bungie manages. OR 2) Like for like trading. A guardian can trade his weapon or armor for another item with the same class status (e.g. Exotic for Exotic, Legendary for Legendary, etc.) I really don't want to see people be able to trade a little glimmer for an Exotic helmet or something like that. It'll break in a week.

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                • no this is -blam!-ing stupid.

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                • I think not having trading in the game is one thing Bungie deffo got right!

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                • I agree the RNG loot system needs changing but loot tables for mobs are a much better way of doing that. You can look at any Loot based MMO like WoW, Diablo 3, even Runescape, and trading provides opportunity for exploitation, which in cases of duplication can sometimes be game breaking. Thankfully glimmer isn't too rare a resource that I doubt we'd suffer the scourge of gold spammers. But people would end up selling gear for money and the system would become pay to win and I'm sorry but I can't abide by that whether it's an intentional feature by devs or an accidental one due to exploitation of trading. Maybe a soulbound system like WoW's would help negate this but you make it sound as if you want this so that people should be able to trade easy to get legendaries they want and IMO that completely defeats the purpose of legendaries.

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                • But what about duplication?

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