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originally posted in: A Very Reasonable Request, Bungie
Edited by Mooserati: 10/1/2014 12:35:51 PM
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DeeJ already said we were being trolled by Reddit's AMA article. DeeJ already said they're working on resolving some issues and finishing up future content. And DeeJ already said that he'll give us more news when he actually has something substantial to share. [b]My point is he IS responding. He's just not saying the things that everybody WANTS to hear.[/b] The problem is some people refuse to accept any other answer EXCEPT some big fat juicy scandal with all kinds of crazy plot twists about how a game's development took a turn for the worst. And they'll never be completely satisfied until they hear exactly that (whether it's even true or not). Regardless of what happened behind closed curtains, some of you guys are going to torture yourselves trying to figure something out that you'll NEVER get an answer to. The development team is remaining tight-lipped because they are under legal contract by the publisher to do so. They have no control over that. Even ex-employees can face lawsuits if they divulge anything. Unless you've been living under a rock you should know that's how many major businesses run. That being said I wish some people would stop vilifying Bungie for remaining secretive about the whole thing. This isn't some conspiracy to scam you out of money. They didn't get this far in the industry by doing that. They're literally just doing their jobs and trying to make a living. They KNOW things haven't gone smoothly at launch and they're clearly making some effort to make things right. The game has literally been out for only 3 weeks. This stuff takes time.
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  • I think he playing the "put out fires" game and trying to buy some time to figure out how to respond from his superiors.

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  • Edited by Mooserati: 10/2/2014 12:10:30 PM
    Even if he wanted to confirm the rumors it would cost him his job. It's a lose-lose situation. [i]Okay, let's play the WHAT IF game. Let's just ASSUME the rumors are true and a bunch of unexpected drama happened at some point...[/i] Should DeeJ automatically blow the whistle and get fired? What if he still wants to keep his job? What if despite all the BS he actually loves working at Bungie? What if he loves interacting with the community and seeing people enjoy the products they come out with? What if he wants to stick around long enough to see all those things happen again? Can you seriously fault a man for trying to achieve happiness in his career? There's so much misdirected anger. What matters more at this point is whether they'll be able to pick up the pieces and turn the game into something better. Stop putting the development team in an awkward position. They know you're mad and feeling betrayed. [b]And guess what... they feel the same way too. A LOT of their hard work (artwork, voice acting, storyline, scripting, etc.) got COMPLETELY chopped out of the game! Content they wanted YOU to see and hear for yourselves. How do you think they feel about that??[/b] And now looking forward, not only do they have to deal with a lot of angry fans now, but they also have to redo chunks of the game ALL OVER again. Assuming that's what the future DLC will be covering. And if not, well they're SOL on having lost a ton of content that nobody will ever see again. Sounds pretty demotivating to me. This sort of crap happens all the time behind closed doors without fans even realizing. If any game developers out there are reading this, I have to give you guys a lot of respect for putting up with all this BS. Getting wedged between business politics and angry fans probably isn't a very pleasant place to be. Hope you guys pull through and see your dreams come true.

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  • Those are the people who want a full refund. But wanna keep their copy of the game.

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  • [quote]he problem is some people refuse to accept any other answer EXCEPT some big fat juicy scandal with all kinds of crazy plot twists about how a game's development took a turn for the worst. And they'll never be completely satisfied until they hear exactly that (whether it's even true or not).[/quote] nailed it.

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  • I think people want there to be an explanation besides incredible incompetence when it comes to storytelling, that they flat out lied about certain basic features in the game, and that this is the best Bungie can do after 5 years in development. This would also allow them to believe that future expansions will fix things, since it keeps up the illusion that Bungie's capable of better. Doesn't that sound more appealing to you, too?

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  • God Bless freedom of speech where I have the right to express my opinion. In other words, I totally disagree with you. Story, complete failure. Loot system complete failure. These however, are FACTS. This game was overhyped for most people. What they said or promised didn't make it to the final product. I don't know why they didn't make changes from the Beta? If they are being trolled, or if they are lying, or Bungie/Activision doesn't care all they care about is money. If they truly -blam!-ed up then they need to step up and say they -blam!-ed up. But they leave you with a vague story that can only be filled with depth of you purchase the expansion pass for $34.99

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  • What Bungie is experiencing is more in line with issues many encounter in current Applied numerical analysis. Speculation is very high among those of us who invest in this franchise and others. Some folks will have a bad experience because of it. All this gossip is just that. My thoughts right now are these cool ships we get to fly to missions. The cutscenes. I went straight to the Ace Combat. Franchise. Would be nice to run a squad at a "ketch" and take it down. Blow fallen dropships out of the sky over a drop zone would not be bad for the morale us guardian underdog Fireteams. Either. Is that income I hear? Just get the infrastructure in sync. You got what appears to be a great thing going on here and it will take everyone involved to make this a successful launch. The ghost is not very forth coming about how we came to this horrid state. I woke up with a talking rubic's cube knock off in my face. Then I was fighting for my life. Way i figure it the "speaker" needs to bring me up to speed. And as with all authority. I as a #hunter. Use to following my own path. If the traveler has something to say. Why can he not say it to me. Ghost shares it's thoughts readilly. This "speaker" is like this middleman. Yes, I am suspicious. Well I'm going to the VoG. To farm. See you guy's out in the great beyond. Peace.

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  • The [url=http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law]-godwinslaw!-[/url] were just doing their job too..

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  • Activision is doing to gaming what the [url=http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law]-godwinslaw!-[/url] party did to Germany. XD

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  • I don't actually hate or even blame bungie myself. I wish they'd have gotten in front of this a little better. It has only been 3 weeks, which is why I'm giving them till the first dlc to spruce things up. Though I'm not confident they'll be able too. The promise they made was huge, to huge, and it's backfiring. Of course there's things we won't know, or can't know, but something more then "we're looking into it" type comments would be nice. All that being said, it's nice seeing someone defend bungie with the constant "blams" and "retards" that I've come to expect. You made valid points sir

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  • Edited by Mooserati: 10/1/2014 2:00:33 PM
    For the record my response wasn't necessarily directed towards any specific person. I'm just tired of seeing all the mindless bashing that's going on around here. From a game developer's perspective it's probably very discouraging to see all this negativity. A BIG portion of the development team didn't even have any control over what sort of content was going to be changed or cut out completely in the final build. I'm sure they didn't get up every morning thinking, "Hmm, let's see what we can do to piss our fans off before this game gets released!" There's a whole business politics side to this whole mess that I think a lot of people don't know (or are choosing to ignore) when they ask for complete transparency in communicating the issues they faced. The truth is they simply can't without facing termination, and even lawsuit, for breach of contract. It might sound silly but highlighting major conflicts and admitting fault opens up a whole new can of worms that Activision will need to deal with. There'd be major backlash from both consumers and shareholders. Shareholders in particular would lose faith in their investments towards Activision. Basically it would jeopardize Bungie's existence. Look, I'm just as disappointed as everyone else. But I've accepted the fact that this is the way things are now. The difference is that I'm waiting and giving them a chance to make up for it. Not with ridiculous demands like free content or some long-winded explanation packed with apologies. I just want them to patch things up and get the game back on the right track. They've got some very big shoes to fill, but given their history of AAA titles I have some faith.

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  • You make some excellent points regarding corporate policies and the general trend triple A games are forced into following now. With that said my concern remains the same. I don't think this game is fixable. I can't possibly see bungie having enough assets to put all the content (that is CLEARLY missing) back into the game via digital patches. The task seems insurmountable and perhaps that's why I'm disheartened. I really want to believe they can fix things up but I don't know if it's realistic.

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  • And to add to one thing you said that struck a chord with me. 'I've accepted that this is the way things are now' I suppose my question is why? It almost sounds complacent. Video games are supposed to be the ultimate expression of human ingenuity and art. How can you just accept a publisher like activision having so much influence on what SHOULD be creative control? It's not right. Transparency is so -blam!-ing important, man. If I'm bungie I'm not signing on to a deal that says, "Btw, you have to ignore your communities outcry and pretty much act like it isn't there unless we say you can do otherwise."

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  • Edited by Mooserati: 10/1/2014 2:56:22 PM
    [b]Hot Pocket35[/b], I guess I should've worded that differently. I'm not saying that I've accepted this as being the norm for the gaming industry. I'm just saying that I'm not going to waste my time dwelling on the past. This is the reality we have now... so why not focus on what the future has to offer (and whether we can look for solutions there instead). I just don't think it's very productive to make posts like these where we already know they're not going to divulge anything. It's just not happening. Purely from an objective standpoint dwelling on the past isn't going to change anything. IMO our time would be better spent on providing constructive feedback in hopes that Bungie will listen and at least make some sort of attempt to make things right. Of course anyone is free to disagree with me on that, but that's just my take on things. [b]I also want to add a mini rant here too, regarding the gaming industry and pre-order sales.[/b] I think pre-ordering games and DLC packs has caused quite a bit of laziness (and in some cases recklessness) in the gaming industry. It's hard for publishers and/or developers to be motivated to give out quality and COMPLETE content when they've already got our money in their hands. If more consumers held off on buying stuff until after games hit street release, it would put more pressure on companies to try to put out a better final product. In other words we're part of the problem in the grand scheme of things. Until we change our habits stuff like this will continue happening. [b]Publishers are actively exploiting our need for instant gratification in today's market.[/b] They want you to feel like you're going to fall behind in a competitive AAA title if you don't place your pre-order ASAP. Because you'll miss out on some kickass limited edition Sparrow, gun, and armor pack that all your other friends will be getting. See the problem here?

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  • Well said

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