"I understand everyone's frustration about the decision to not have matchmaking in a post-matchmaking world." - Apparently you don't. Just read the damn forum. "I'd like any group that is motivated and willing to cooperate to make their way through the Raid on Normal." - Unless that group is comprised of people randomly brought together through a matchmaking/LFG system. I mean, -blam!- those guys, right? "The Vault of Glass is in many ways an activity that will build groups from the disparate people who come together to try and make their way through it." - See above comment. "It's very much a team-building exercise. " - Because random teams of 6 people can NEVER figure out how to cooperate. They're far too stupid, lazy, and anti-social to even understand the concept of teamwork.

Look without seeing the rest of the Tower I'd say to Mr. Smith to please consider adding an area where players can at least migrate to that is specifically meant for recruiting for Raiding if normal matchmaking isn't present. You have these great computer terminal props all over the tower. You could add a region chat to them so players can at least place in requests for players willing to go on a raid. Not everyone is going to use the actual forum to coordinate and with the limitations on players communicating in Strikes and Tower itself or lack of, making new friends or affiliations who are willing to commit to that much time while actually playing at the same hours as you do will be very difficult. I get it. It's suppossed to entice the most elite players. Well guess where those guys are going with that gear right after they get it? Right to the Iron Banner to demolish less equipped players. Right to Strikes to hog kills and speed run them making the other players simply quit out because they can't earn XP or assuage their egos. Now as great as that sounds for the guy with the gear, everyone on here knows the incredible outcry that will descend like locus on just a perceived advantage beyond any Legendary Equipment. And to be honest I've seen this kind of nonsense sputtered before. Oh you're a gold... Well I'm a Onxy. Remember that poop in Reach? So go ahead and do what you gotta do. All I know is for all the guys scrambling to defend the no matchmaking there's going to be a thousand plus who could give a damn about board and clans. All of them conditioned by COD, Halo, and BF looking for end game gear without having to talk to one another. The minute a Level 30 Titan splashes down with a regonizable Raid item and kills four level 28s in the Iron Banner is the minute your experiment gets its real test in customer dissatisfaction. The forum defenders will hoo and haw but the real problem lies in the millions of players who won't be on here defending or castigating the system, but will be wandering off to the games that they feel comfortable in and can gain satisfaction from their efforts without relying on little tommy egomaniac and the death squad super force.

Bump sub.

luke smith also said he loved armor lock.

I can see their point, but they should at least create some kind of 'Raid meetup' section on bnet on release to make it easier for people to find raid mates.

This brings me back to the Vidmaster Achievement days. Good times!

[quote]The Vault of Glass is in many ways an activity that will build groups from the disparate people who come together to try and make their way through it. It's very much a team-building exercise. [/quote] What's he smoking? You can't build groups without meeting randoms... guess what happens with matchmaking. You already have to build a group to go in there - and if you do it with randoms you find on forums here, on another website or just randomly inviting people to your Fireteam (lol) it's no different than matchmaking.

Bungie should finally learn, that only a minority of players visiting official boards. With 4,6 million unique players ALSO visiting this forum here, the daily topc and post count would totally different here. But this is: NOT THE CASE. Therefore it's a mistake that a game with heavy MMO influences is so unsocial to the regular gamer. Not to implement any ways to: - communicate with others via in-game chats or so - administrate clans without the use of external services is something which underlines a needed Matchmaking Feature even more.

like don mattrick,luke smith will have to pay for this with his job. because the farmers with pitchforks demand nothing less. ive seen this type of shite before in a mmo.final fantasy 14 tuned its endgame raid on purpose so people wouldn't beat it.then when it was beat,nerfed it the very next day. what are their intentions?only the best of the best need apply like blue gartier?well 99.99% of us arnt good enough to play on that team....should we all just go home and perhaps not buy this game ?

I don't understand. You people complain that you have to try to make something work. Bungie had made tools that you can chose to use to get a fireteam rooster setup. Example I have just started playing online on the ps3 I had zero friends prior to playing destiny. I have through the forums posting created a small list of destiny players who all want to raid. Before the game has even launched, I have done this. I think that people just "want" bungie to do things for them. Seriously if you have even played the beta you could have added a few fellow guardians to you're friends list. I believe there are forums for each console of players posting screen names to get to know each other and for raid roosters. I believe that bungie wants "you" the player to have to work and earn this. Which if you don't want to earn it is up to you. Is the social system prefect? No it was not in beta. Was I able to make friends, yes I was. Unless you don't know how to send a friend request that is on you. Maybe they could just make it so that you automatically are friends with everyone you ever meet in destiny so you don't have to do it for your self?

I see you created this OP before I slide the information into my existing OP. Bumping out of respect.

I for one am extraordinarily excited that Bungie is tailor making content specifically for hardcore PvE players. I love me some PvP but it will be a welcome challenge to work toward the Glass Vault with a couple pre-made friends. To think Bungie is short changing us by not including matchmaking for raids seems to skip over the more than apt challenge of strikes, where matchmaking is included. Props to Bungie for fitting all of this into one game.

"Oh raids are so hardcore, you need to build a hardcore group otherwise its to hardcore!" I'm sorry, but no. Thats just a very lazy excuse that does not touch on the topic why MM is not allowed alongside regular group creation. The whole thing just stinks of creating a cliche of people who are so hardcore they have their own super hard group content and are oh so super, which is fine, but not when accomplished by creating artificial gates like the lack of MM. You are not being revolutionary nor do you make things more challenging by excluding automatic MM. You are just putting up a completely artificial barrier for the less social players to even try your content. That is not the right way to go as I'm sure you will discover once your super elite content tanks hard after release (ie, mostly ignored) Sorry, no bonus.

Why post on Neogaf and not Bnet? Eurrrgh

So why does Destiny use match making on other instances in a "post-match making word" ?? Still, its a smart spin on the issue. It will make all hardcore 24/7 players support it. I've already saw some of that myself. "hey DUDE if you're not hardcore enough you got no business doing raids". But hey, if part of the game is not for everyone and I'm on the group that is not meant to play the whole game, then I'll take my refund on the part not for me but that I'm still paying just the same now. Thank you.

hmmm, I can't help but wonder how a shooter will be made into something to figure out with cooperation. This is an extremely exciting idea to me. I can't wait to see how it works. My thumbs are probably getting old and lame, but there is nothing in video games that I can't figure out if I can just find the will.

[i]"I expect Hard mode to take longer. Once your group learns the encounters, you will be able to get through the Raid significantly faster than[b] 3 hours[/b]"[/i] So, basically he's saying it CAN take up to 3 hours to complete the raid? Sheesh.

Hopefully everyone may calm down a bit now.

I don't get it... he says the activity will build groups, but they have no mechanism for building groups in the game. That's... weird, right?

They will put mm in eventually. What most have missed is that launch without means the complaints and discussions that will happen will tell bungi exactly what the mm has to do and how to do it.