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7/31/2014 1:28:38 PM
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+1 from me too. Even if you get 6 people together if someone drops out that's it? No pugging a random to fill the spot.
Guess I'll be able to look at raid bosses on youtube cos I ain't seeing them in game.
Dick move IMO.
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Oh my god. Literally everyone here complaining is on a public forum full of thousands of people who play the game on the same platform. Literally! And you're saying you can't find a few other people? I don't think that's Bungie's fault. They're giving you all the tools. Sorry that raiding takes more effort up front than explore mode does. #notsorry
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Bungie has given no tools
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LOL! This is not the game. We can't communicate like this in the game. If we could, parties, clans, friendships would grow. #Bungiedroppedtheball
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But it is an extension of it.
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Then make it available ( the forums ) in the game. Crap. I have a keyboard. Now I need my phone, or I pad. We are going backwards.
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Forums are available on any browser in any console.
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So I leave the game, open a browser, look up, screw that. It's backwards. Open up a text based chat in game. Don't freak out. That's what they ( you ) are asking me to do with the forums. Just taking longer to get to the goal.
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I give up on this conversation. So many posts on so many threads. You win. Wait, Bungie already set their game the side I'm on? Kinda sounds like even though I'm bowing out of these conversations, I still win :D ha. Oh well. Time to take these forums with a lot more grains of salt.
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I said this before " so much for world domination " I plan on playing, and enjoying what they created. But I will leave at end game, like others if they fail to have a decent party finder or match maker, some sort of in game " easy to use " communication. You can win, Bungie loses. Good debate. If ya see me on line, shoot me! Good hunting Guardian.
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But that is kinda my point. When I am in game, I am not going to be hunting through the forums to try and find a group or clan or w/e. I will be playing the game. There should be a way to match make in game. And since there is no simple way (beyond friend then messaging then creating a party of some rando that I probably don't want to friend..) to get a group going. If you don't want to use a matchmaking option, don't. Some people it may be the best option at the time.
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There is. It's called strikes. And you can friend the good players in strikes and take them to raids. It's honestly that simple.
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You cant compare strikes and raids. In the beta, I never completed the strike with a full fireteam. Someone always bailed. I still finished it, hell I solo'd it (the 'hard' mode, btw), but if the same thing happens with a raid (which is supposed to be sooo much harder) why not be able to have some sort of matchmaking to fill the spot. Amd what would be the harm of having the option for players like me? You don't have to use it. How would having it hurt your play experience? It shouldn't. But not having it definitely impacts my play experience.
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[quote]You cant compare strikes and raids. In the beta, I never completed the strike with a full fireteam. [b] Someone always bailed[/b]. I still finished it, hell I solo'd it (the 'hard' mode, btw), but if the same thing happens with a raid (which is supposed to be sooo much harder) why not be able to have some sort of matchmaking to fill the spot. Amd what would be the harm of having the option for players like me? You don't have to use it. How would having it hurt your play experience? It shouldn't. But not having it definitely impacts my play experience.[/quote] And you just nailed part of the argument for no matchmaking. I bolded it. Now double your chances of someone leaving, and triple the length of time required. Do you think you'll have less quitters somehow? And a raid you most definitely will not be able to solo. It hurts because the amount of people trying to form a premade group will be less. Right now it's a necessity so people will do it. If it's not, some will completely opt out and may NEVER have an optimal raiding experience, which is sad. I'd rather have no raid experience than god awful sad raid experience.
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But it's closed minded to think just because you invited someone that's still a random that you were matched up with in a strike or in the tower won't bail..it's moronic and you only see one side if the argument...I have switched many times in the last hour alone but you clearly don't try to see the other side
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You haven't seen all my posts on the subject. Don't assume I'm closed minded on the subject.
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I never said you were I said thinking that people, just because invited won't bail on you halfway through just like randoms. I don't know you and haven't seen your posts outside this specific threads so I have no basis to call you closed minded just that one point you made
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I acknowledge that anyone can drop from any group at any time for any number of reasons. Although I reason that the chances of someone that is on your friends list that you've played with in the past has a much lower chance of dropping than a random you'll likely never see again. I'm not 100% against MM but if implemented, they would have to erect other barriers to limit the ungeared/no mic from being able to join. Then, inevitably, they would argue those barriers shouldn't be in place because they should be able to blindly throw themselves at the raid even if their chance of succeeding was 0%.
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I see your point, but it also makes my point (as I said in the last sentence of that paragraph). Having some type of matchmaking would allow the group to fill the spot and carry on. Now, that is also assuming being able to search while still carrying on - ya know, like in most mmo's. I disagree with [quote] the amount of people trying to form a premade group will be less.[/quote]. Almost every MMO (if not all) have some form of grouping tool, yet there are still premade - most groups running are premades. It doesn't lessen the formation of premade groups (honestly, i would prefer premade, it just isn't always an option), but allows those without a premade to still participate. From past experiences, a lot of times the matchmaking tool is used to fill one or two spots in a premade when members are not available. Me personally, I'll take a sad raid over no raid. A sad raid has a chance to get better and also has a chance for loot. No raid does not.
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Edited by RadBrad31: 7/31/2014 11:30:21 PMIt absolutely will reduce the amount of people making premades and here is why. For this example, let's say we have 1000 people playing Destiny at level 20. Easy number to work with. Let's say that 200 of those people end up interested in trying to raid. Now let's say half of those, so 1/10, have a clan or large amount of friends to make groups. So out of 1000 people, 200 would like to raid, 100 fill the requirements of having a 6 man Fireteam, we still have 100 out there. In a matchmaking scenario, let's say that 80-90 of those just click on it and try it. Beat their heads into it. Random people leave and drop. 10-20 of these leftovers went to the forums to make premades. So 110-120 for premades. In a no matchmaking scenario, people try to join the Raid and get the message please come back with 5 friends. I'll venture to guess more than 10-20 people go out searching for a group. Less people will just hit Join and face roll in hopes of loot, because they can't. More will be pushed to premade, out of necessity. Like I've said (in either this topic or one of the many others) I've played in MMOs that excluded MM, then I've played them when they included it. They included it long long after most of the content was beaten and everyone had general knowledge on how things ran. I would not have a problem with them opening it up as strats got out and more and more people beat it. But I still think the pinnacle of difficulty in games should not be attempted by pugs with random shots at even having a mic. EDIT: Typo.
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I'm sorry, I just don't see it. Every MMO i've played has had some sort of MM functionality (yes, some introduced later, but not before end game was in the past). Premades are the norm in all that I have played (so I do agree with you on that point), but the option to run a PUG (even to fill one or two slots - depending on group size) has always been there and it didn't decrease the amount of premades. Even with your math above, you have more premades then PUGs. I just don't see how someone can say matchmaking kills premades when the last, what, 15-20 years of MMO's proves that isn't the case. But denying the option reduces the playability of the game for a good number of players. And you bring up another issue - I am not going to be searching through the forums to try and find a group. That is a COMPLETE waste of time. When I am playing, I'm playing, not trying to navigate through a forum and hoping someone reads my post. With matchmaking, we all queue up, we all know we are investing the time, so lets rock it. It isn't always going to be the greatest run, but it's still going to be a run. Plus, running with others, you can learn new ways to accomplish tasks/fights. As for the mic, I ran into NO-ONE with a mic - unless I had to do it some other way then just being in a party (more pvp on this topic than pve...i ran into no-one at all in pve besides the strike). And I still don't see how having the option impacts your play style? What does it matter if I want to run a PUG one night if my premade isn't on? Look...yes - premades will almost always be better - I am not denying that or saying "Death to the premades!". As I've said, I'd rather rock it with a premade. But again, there are going to be times when not everyone is on (and I highly doubt I will have added enough by the time I hit 20 since there is nothing social about this game in-game), and popping myself into a Matchmaking queue is ideal.
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Edited by RadBrad31: 8/1/2014 12:17:12 AMSadly you couldn't talk to people not in your Fireteam so yeah, it seemed like no one had a mic. I ran into the same issue. I don't agree with that but I'll deal. I see what you're saying. I love LFG when I'm leveling up. I do. I just can't imagine PUGging the hardest content, in their words, Bungie has ever made and it being anything less than a controller throwing experience. I guess I'm so steadfastly on this side of the table is because I have faith that Bungie is doing this for a damn good reason. They knew there'd be negativity about this before the game launched. That's a risky move, do something that the small % of elites will love and possibly alienate a much higher % of casuals? That's a risk. They knew that. Yet they're doing it anyways. If I were a betting man, I'd say they will talk about this in their Friday update, as much of an uproar as this has caused on the forums.
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I want to make one thing clear - I'm not a casual. I wouldn't call myself elite (I don't think playtime makes one elite..), but I am no casual. I just don't have a huge friends list. I just feel it's a dick move by Bungie to make raids friends list only. In all honesty, I'm coming to realize the only reason they are doing it this way is because they left out all forms of communication from the game - and communication will be necessary for raids. They are leaving that up to PSN and XBox Live. Which is kinda ridiculous. Admittedly, I am not a game developer, but there doesn't seem to be anything special about Destiny that they couldn't have included it. From my experience in the Beta, it's an always online single player FPS, with co-op missions and PVP. A mix between Diablo III and Halo and they all have communication in-game. That is probably a horrible comparison, but that is what the Beta felt like to me.
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I do think that forcing you to be in a Fireteam with the people you're on a strike with is a mistake. I don't agree with that decision and I think that letting people mute the few they'd rather not hear would help a lot of things. Including making friends for raids. I also agree that the only reason a Fireteam is required is because communication is considered a necessity, not an option, in a raid. Good point sir.
