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Edited by John of Mars:
7/23/2014 2:27:09 PM
311
Destiny's Biggest Problem: It's a Social Game with No Communication
The beta has been great overall. There are some balance changes that are needed, but I'm confident that that can be ironed out.
My biggest concern is that I've played 14 hours and I only talked to one person other than my two clanmates. Is it just me? Have you talked with anyone?
There are two issues I think.
[B]1) Voice Chat is really limited:[/B]
- No voice chat in PVP. It's entirely team-based, but I can't talk to anyone? Is voice chat really limited to fireteams only? That's crazy limited. I just moved from 360 to PS4 so I don't have a lot of friends yet. It'd be cool to get to know some other Destiny players.
- Is there really no voice chat in Strikes by default? Strikes are 3 person fireteams, but whenever I did a strike, no one talked. I clicked R3 on my teammate, invited them to my fireteam, at which point they went back to orbit, then re-entered the game and I could talk to them! How does that make sense? Is this really how it works?
If we make voice chat more common, then we'll need options. Like "All", "Team" and "None". Just like Halo games.
[B]2) If you accept that voice chat is going to be really limited, there's still no effective way to talk to teammates.[/B]
The built-in gestures are fun in the Tower, but useless in the field.
- [I]Waving[/I] is good while exploring, but unhelpful during strikes.
- [I]Pointing[/I] is completely useless unless you're looking directly at your teammate. And even then it's only good for a direction, not pointing at an object.
- [I]Sitting?[/I] Why would I sit in an active battlezone? I suppose it's nice for sitting for screenshots with Bungie's beautiful skyboxes, but I don't *need* it like I do the stuff below.
- [I]Dancing[/I] is just fine.
[B]We really need combat-related gestures.[/B] Here are some ideas I brainstormed this morning. Feel free to add/criticize
- [I]Call target[/I]. Have you tried to take out that Demon Walker with a team that is just shooting at whatever they damn well please? Being able to really call out what to shoot will make teams much more effective.
- [I]Rally to me/ Regroup[/I]. Strikes start out in wide open explore territory. I had a teammate get distracted and wander off at the start and my other teammate charged straight ahead. There was no way to tell one to hurry up and the other to wait up. So very frustrating. It'd also be helpful for trying to group up in between waves like during the Strike.
- [I]Awesome/Thank You[/I]. Those two above are great for combat, but we need a way to interact with our teammates too. Someone resurrects you? Say thanks! You shoot a Stealth Vandal right before they knife your buddy? Now you can see that they appreciate it, rather than just them wandering away.
- Keep [I]dancing[/I]. It's fun to dance on the broken shell of Sepkis Prime.
A few more ideas:
"Help!"
"Revive Needed!"
"Follow me!"
"Attack/Defend"
Perhaps even a system like Dark Souls where you can "equip" various gestures.
How do y'all feel? Agree? disagree? Big problem? Not a problem?
I posted this on [url=http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2bapid/destinys_biggest_problem_its_social_game_with_no/]Reddit's Destiny subreddit[/url], where it's gotten a lot of great feedback. I wanted to make sure it was seen here too.
Edit: Thanks for all the great responses, everyone. And thanks for jumping in, DeeJ!
Some things I wanted to highlight were:
- This great mock-up of what [url=http://i.imgur.com/FSfWoZo.jpg]an expanded gesture system[/url] could look like.
- Some discussion on suggested individual [url=http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2bfdjj/how_is_this_not_the_most_simple_solution_to_the/]voice settings for different play areas[/url].
- And a great solution that [url=http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2bfdjj/how_is_this_not_the_most_simple_solution_to_the/cj4to5u]lets players decide up front what voice options they want[/url], without a lot of fiddliness.
I also wanted to point out with [url=http://www.polygon.com/2014/4/18/5625802/hearthstone-chat-Blizzard]how well Hearthstone has done[/url] with limiting player interactions. It's a little different because it's not a team-based game, but like Dark Souls, it won't let players abuse each other. This is why I think gestures with non-friends is such a great option. It'll keep things positive and helpful but still let players participate who don't want to use/hear voice.
I'm not sure how much of this is feasible for game that's going to release in 48 days (gold master is probably much sooner!). So these are some wishlist items to be sure. I hope we can make some voice changes by launch at the least and maybe keep an expanded gesture system in mind for future updates.
Voice chat (or even free text chat) can definitely be abused, so Bungie's concern is totally valid. I'm glad they're listening to us and look forward to the response!
P.S. [url=http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2bapid/destinys_biggest_problem_its_social_game_with_no/cj3lujp]This is my favorite response[/url].
English
#feedback
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Wow. And here I thought that I was the only one with a mic in +25 Crucible games and a handful of Strikes. How? How can this possibly be the policy in a game that not only requires communication, but markets itself as a 'social' game? In fact, this makes the game the least 'social' multiplayer/coop/mmo-hybrid that I have ever seen. I was confused when such an emphasis was put on the gestures: a cute system but what I saw as kind of pointless in the grand scheme of the game. I guess I was wrong, as those 4 gestures are literally all that we have to communicate with other players in the game world. I am hopeful though that Bungie will fix this. All that's needed is a system for individual voice settings and an easy to use mute button. I'd like to think that the popularity of this thread is good evidence of the poor reaction to the current system.
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3 RepliesYoudo realize that if you are looking at someone and press R3 you can select them. Then you can press another button to examine them and invite them to your fire team. Viola! Instant voice chat in pickup crucible or any other situation.
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I think we all can agree that linking up with other players to form a fireteam is way to complicated. Here are some possible solutions. Solution 1: ghost assisted match making pulling up your ghost anywhere gives you the options of holding b(similar to going to orbit) to start a fire team match making process. This could also be modified to send requests and accept request through your ghost. Solution 2: tower fire team recruitment area There should be a well designated area in the tower where people can go if they are looking to join a fire team. Perhaps it's a vender type character or a flagged area where people can mingle naturally instead of everyone trying to dance wave sit point to see if someone wants to link up Solution 3: mutual wave proximity chat If two players wave to each other then that should open up proximity chat. I think these are viable solutions, what do think
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Totally Agree
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1 ReplyOn the subject of sitting, [i]can[/i] you take screenshots? I haven't found an option for it and I wanted to take some scenic sitting pictures...
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I agree. We need communication and I would love to meet new people in the world. Proximity chat would be nice and so would a Mute button for those that annoy you.
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1 ReplyAn option to mute/unmute some sort of standard proximity chat would be wonderful!!!
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It's really hard to get help and build a fire team for a mission when I have to type in ...will you help me run xyz mission..to every person individually in tower.
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Proximixty voice and text chat should be included but having them disabled by default (since clearly some people don't want this but I do) wouldn't bother me. Bungie, just please give us players the option.
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it's a lonely world when you can't talk to anyone :(
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yessss oh lord yes
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I agree completely. Having the ability to freely talk with player in the tower would open up a whole new experience. Maybe a simple toggle to open proximity chat or with a selected player or group. We are your community and deserve the right to freely talk in game, in MM, etc. This is one of the cornerstones that made Halo so much of a community building experience. As for [b]DeeJ's[/b] comment about "respecting the quality of our experience", let us decide on whether or not we want a random player in the discussion with the mute option. Providing players with better in game communication options and how to properly manage them allows us to take more ownership of our experience. Destiny is a wonderful gaming environment and what you have offered us lends itself to in game discussions. I would have thought that this was a given.
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Yeah, we definitely need some form of general voice chat. Otherwise social areas are going to be for the most part rather boring. It would be much easier to communicate and get to know people without having to friend them or form a fireteam. Some people don't like accepting random friend requests, and sometimes your fireteam might already be full, in which case there's nothing you can really do. I understand this leaves people vulnerable to potential belligerents, but come on, if you can't handle some trash talk from a disembodied voice then you really need to get some thicker skin. Personally I think the benefits would far outweigh the potential annoyances. And I know this might be better in a different thread, but we really need trading.
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Edited by The Fiddler: 7/23/2014 11:52:51 PMI'm pretty sure that one of the major reasons for them to do this is for the Teen rating that the game has. An easy solution would be to just open up team chat in Crucible and tell people with a disclaimer that interactions in the crucible are not rated by the ESRB. There are plenty of different Teen games that do this.
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If pointing established a visible way point at where ever you're aiming, it'd be super cool for stradegy and communication purposes for people not on your fire team.
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I like it, I like it a lot
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Ps4 has a mute button for a reason. If they wanna have a default off for chat then make a option to turn it on tired of losing in a crucible because my team can't here my call outs CAUSE CHAT IS OFF....or in a strike you have people that are new and don't know what to do and can't tell them how to do it And ends up you have to carry them through the whole Mf'ing strike because we can't communicate in this game
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Mute won't keep tweens from dancing on my character. If we have privacy options though then idc. Public Tower reminds me of PS Home smh.
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Edited by Zamics: 7/24/2014 3:28:51 AMAgreed. Major points for me would be local voice chat, especially when playing PVE, which is my forte. I want to be able to talk to the people around me, darnit, not just be limited by 4 expressions. Sure there are trolls and such, but I'll mute those guys if I want to. And those who just want to play with friends and like things the way they are should be given an option to disable proximity chat. Anyone who says that proximity chat is filled with 99% trolls and such clearly has not played enough games that have proximity chat. It is in no way like a call of duty match, people can be and often are very mature. Arma and Planetside 2 are perfect examples of this. Second biggest point, there should really be customizable gestures. Much like in games such as assassins creed, dark souls, etc, one dpad direction could bring up the menu. Use the thumb stick to scroll, and press a leftover dpad direction to select that gesture for that button/direction. Then exit with, I don't know, B, and there you go. Easy, and manageable in game.
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Better communication options would indeed be a very welcome addition to the game. Hopefully we see more social interactivity options make it into the game by launch.
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Thank you! I tried posting a topic like this days ago but to little/no reception. I fully agree that we need gestures that are more useful if we can't talk with anyone.
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And here I was thinking everyone just didn't have headsets. Please fix this Bungie!
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Yeah, I've been running around on the ps3 at night and no one uses headsets. Had one guy that tried last night and it was nothing but static. If not for anything else, I would like to call out tactics to my team. Can't even do that cause I don't know if they can hear me or not. I would love to run a game where I have others that i can talk to.
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3 Replies[b]The mute button is a powerful weapon against abuse.[/b] It is a players [b]CHOICE[/b] to take abuse or to mute someone. Second: I'm sorry but since ive moved from xbox to ps4 I have no friends, no games have good voice chat or viable friend options. I have had a hard time making friends and my ps4 is collecting dust. I thought that would be fixed in destiny and I am sadly mistaken. This is a HUGE problem for me. Third: Ummm.... Halo???? Ring any bells? We could talk to people within proximity ON THE ENEMY TEAM!...... so how can you justify on a Co-Op game, little to no social options.... Let us SPEAK... Do not limit SPEACH, we cannot function as a community, ask battlefield 4.
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Wow lots of buzz on this topic... Seems like this will be an issue. Read some of these but definitely not all so I am sure someone has already suggested this... Have the chat sources separated and ranged in the options menu... Like fireteam, clan, open world and then each has a volume and range slider plus a mute. Obviously this may be a technical nightmare this late in the build of the game... But it would definitely be a huge selling point for me on Destiny 2. [spoiler]Already sold on the sequel... This beta is awesome [/spoiler]
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10 RepliesHow many of you have played cod? I bet most of you. How many times have you come across an annoying troll, or someone full of vulgarity and trash talk? Or how about someones music blasting or that person with a mic that has no backround noise cancellation? IN that very moment, before you ever so "conveniently" hit the mute button, you were annoyed. There was a cringe. Your blood pressure rose. There was negative energy present. You said shut up. Angry words might have been exchanged. In destiny we didnt have to deal with that... and wow, that was nice for a change! Maybe this is one of the reasons destiny for the most part has been a pleasurable experience for all of us. I know many of you want the option to chat and I fully understand the reasons behind it. If bungie does enable chat my hope is that it can be turned off PRIOR to ever having to hear anyone. Hopefully while in story mode we will not have to stop what we're doing just to mute someone....that in itself would ruin our gameplay experience and immersion.
