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originally posted in:The Black Garden
originally posted in: Shachal - Chapter 1: Reinstated
Edited by GammaF88: 2/26/2014 10:31:24 PM
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Sorry to sound negative, that's not my intention in the slightest, but I'll just be listing any grammar/syntax errors as I go... Spoilers to anyone who hasn't read it yet. [spoiler]A lot of useful information is presented on this High Council in the first paragraph of the story. I admit it's important for future reference, but it seems like a lot of "telling" without much "presenting". Just save some of the info for a place where it fits better. "After invested research?" After Sideros says "Fireteam Shachal" in the beginning of his dialogue, he doesn't need to keep repeating it since everyone in the room already knows what he's referring to. You can still say it more than once for emphasis, but swap it out for pronouns every once in a while. Nightfall is a singular event. In order to be doing something "during nightfall", it would have to be referring to dusk, not all of the night. "longsuffering"? Someone who had been born during/after the collapse probably wouldn't find it hard to accept their current reality. Perhaps mention someone in the narrator's past who tells him stories of the world "before"? This isn't an error, but I had to mention I really like the part about being alien to our own home. Great descriptive phrase! A sentence says "Because of the Collapse and those...", but then goes on to say humanity doesn't know how it lost its home. His solace is found in the night, so saying he has to wait for another "day" is kind of contradictory.[/spoiler] I'd like to emphasize that I'm not trying to rain on your parade. A lot of these FanFics can be really bad, and I don't bother commenting on those. The only reason I make all of these remarks is because I think you deserve someone to give you honest feedback, and that you can really go somewhere with this. I also apologize if you're offended at all. I have a very critical and detail-oriented attitude, although I don't try to, and it can seem kind of harsh sometimes. I feel it's also necessary to mention that I really liked it.
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  • Thanks for the honest constructive criticism. I'm not offended. In all honesty, i'm surprised to hear it. I don't get feedback like this often and it can be very helpful. I will admit that my earlier chapters very likely have more flaws than the later ones. The first two or three were written in a short amount of time. A few days, perhaps. As for the following chapters, i spent more time on them. Some of your points i have noticed myself, and they specifics annoy me as well, so you're not alone there. A lot of times, when a mistake i didn't notice is pointed out, i get frustrated with myself. So thank you for the input. I have done the more severe critiques myself and i was also met with upset replies in response to my suggestions. But i realize the importance of such so i am thankful. I'm glad you liked that particular description. I liked it as well. As for the Collapse statement, i have a plan for that in my plot, but can't reveal it yet. It has its time. Either way, i could have found a much more efficient way of writing it. Thanks for reading. Have you only read the first chapter?

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  • Yeah. I had to get back to one of the reports I have to write, so I didn't have time to look at all of the chapters. 5 pages single-spaced, only 2 down, due on Monday and no time on the weekend to do it. Ugh. I saw that you'd had little in the way of criticism for yours, and it was Proto's and Hobbes' criticism of my story that inspired some of the changes you might have noticed on the second time around, so I know from experience that constructive criticism is a must for improving a story and your writing skills. On that note, I hope it helps, and I hope we can continue to swap stories as time goes on.

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  • I know how that is. I hated writing reports and the like. I know right? Now I like writing in my spare time. I don't get it either haha. It's no rush. The chapters won't be going anywhere. Again I thank you for the constructive critique. I have been much more patient and picky with my later chapters, and apparently, my other readers have seen a difference as well, so I doubt you'll see as many errors in the future installments. I just finished working out a little bit ago, so I plan on going to read that soon. And I hope to continue sharing the stories as well.

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  • Did you understand what I meant by everything? Anything you disagree with/need clarification on? Especially for what I meant about "telling" and "presenting"?

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  • I agree on the Council feedback. I also thought it was a little out of place. I think I was just trying to create an image for the readers. Give them an idea of what the area looked like, yet giving them plenty of room to fill in the gaps to their liking. As for Sideros' repetition of "Fireteam Shachal" I agree that the overuse of it can be rather dull, and I have been much more aware of the use of proper/common nouns as well as the use of pronouns. The later chapters are much more balanced with those terms. The nightfall point was probably the error I would have missed for the longest amount of time. Dusk would have been a much more precise term. Longsuffering was intended. "Suffering for a long time without complaining; very patient during difficult times." As for the people who were born during or after the Collapse being able to accept their conditions, my purpose there was to create a desire for hope. A longing for a life that isn't as harsh or difficult as humanity's current circumstances; fighting more than the sentient beings intent on wiping them out. They are fighting extinction and the dwindling of hope. As for the Collapse's cause and effect, I could have explained more accurately. I intended to create the knowledge that the cataclysmic event that crippled humanity is referred to as the Collapse, but that the cause or perpetrators of the Collapse are unknown. By "day", I was just referring to the ordinal 24 hour day. Doesn't necessarily make it contradictory. As for telling and presenting, I see the difference. Telling is mediocre to presenting, for me. The presentation of information allows the readers to better experience the setting, people, scenarios, etc. without feeling like they're reading an informative manual (i.e. telling). So there were a couple of points I disagreed on, but for the most part, I agree with the critique. Many of your points, I also critiqued myself on. Therefore I have been more careful with the later chapters. Although, I won't try to say that they are flawless, I believe they are better written than the earlier ones.

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  • Well, dusk and nightfall, at least how I've seen them used, always means [i]at[/i] the time in the evening when the sun is going down below the horizon, not just another word for the night. Longsuffering, huh? You learn something new every day, I guess! What I meant by being born during/after the collapse was that he/she probably wouldn't have been around long enough to know what it was like before the Collapse well enough to miss any of it. Their harsher life would have been the only one they would have known, so they wouldn't have anything to compare it to. The word "day" in there was fine, but it would be better to say they had to wait "another day" (as a length of time) instead of having to wait "[i]for[/i] another day" which can imply that they were waiting on the day mentioned. For telling and presenting, you have kind of the right idea. It's more along the lines of instead if "telling" your reader exactly what you mean, "present" details that imply what you mean. It gives writing a lot more length, depth, and feels less like reading a report of it. Example: Telling: "He was incredibly mad at his situation as he walked in the door." Presenting: "He stomped into the building, smashing the door activation panel with his fist to shut it. The destroyed screen fell on the floor, and he glared at it with a look that would have made anything living cringe and leave the room. When the inanimate object offered no such reaction, his temper snapped, and he kicked it hard enough to send it into another room where it hit the wall and broke into a hundred glittering shards."

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  • The night point I agree with. I saw what you meant and understand it. I see where you're coming from with the pre-Collapse/post-Collapse argument. But think of it this way. A homeless child dreads the harsh lifestyle of living on the streets, enduring the cold, suffering starvation, etc. Imagining a life without those things, it hopes for that dream. The same could be said for humanity in Destiny's time period and circumstances. Like the homeless child, they could easily hope for a day when the wars against the sentient factions end, the people grow old, they don't hide behind walls, and they don't need to be afraid for their survival. Just because you haven't experienced the lifestyle pre-Collapse, it doesn't mean you can't hope and aspire for a life without the hardships that came at the time and afterwards. I see what you mean by the day point now. Perhaps that could have helped. I understand what you mean by the telling vs. presenting. I actually employ that in my story, but I think the demand for it depends on the scenario. Some details aren't as relevant as others, so a simple statement suffices. Or rather, some details are better left vague for a time until more detail is needed. I agree with that tactic entirely though.

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  • Could have helped? Can you not edit the Drive documents for some reason? And telling vs presentation isn't all about level of detail, it's about taking the roundabout way of giving the audience information without directly saying it to them. As opposed to saying someone is a bad person, saying that they mercilessly killed entire families or something without blinking. After saying that, it's not necessary to tell the readers that the person is bad, they already know it. [i]But[/i], you didn't tell it to them. You presented information that led them to that conclusion. Have you ever read the Inheritance Cycle by Christopher Paolini? (Eragon, Eldest, Brisingr, and Inheritance)

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  • I can fix it but it'll be a pain and i don't have the time right now. The actual typed files in the google drive have a collective limit to 15MB i believe. However, when i share them to the drive i have an unlimited supply of stored documents. But by doing so, i'd have to correct it in the MS Word file first, then re-share it on my google drive, and then change the url for my files. Good point on the telling vs. presenting. I see eye to eye with you there. No i haven't read any of those. I know i should, but i don't read that much.

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  • Edited by GammaF88: 2/27/2014 3:58:44 AM
    That's slightly disappointing, the last book in that series has my favorite example of implying a huge plot twist without ever coming out and saying it. I'd highly recommend them. Lots of action, good description, fantasy without being taken overboard and being drowned in jargon. Number one big tip for improving writing: Read. A lot. Find something you like, and start reading. Find more like the ones you've already read and liked by the same or similar authors. What kind of books, or if you [i]really[/i] don't read, what kind of stories do you like in general?

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  • I get drilled a lot for my reading declining. I used to have a highly advanced reading level when i was younger but it ended up reaching a plateau when i slowed my reading down. I know i need to read more but usually i can't find many books out there that interest me. Mostly i like more mature, sci-fi, action, fantasy, and mystery novels. The kind of writing style i've read in books i have liked inspired my style when writing my own story.

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  • Ah, technology. Sci-fi, action, fantasy, and mystery, eh? You'd definitely like Michael Crichton. I recommend Sphere, Prey, Micro, The Andromeda Strain, and Jurassic Park. The Inheritance Cycle, as mentioned before. Halo books, or you probably wouldn't be here. Allegiance by Timothy Zahn is a Star Wars book, but definitely my favorite of the franchise. He's also just a good author in general. Tom Clancy has a bunch of near-future tech sci-fi action thrillers, most in the Cold War era. The Sum of All Fears, Cardinal in the Kremlin, and Patriot Games are probably the best. I also find myself writing a lot like the authors I've read from often. It's just how it works, and it's an easy way to get better without having to be constantly writing.

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  • I haven't heard any of those except the Halo novels, five of which i have read. Other novels i enjoyed, but haven't finished unfortunately, were the LOTR books. I also liked the Legend of Drizzt series, although i've only read two of them i think. The Warhammer novels covering Gotrek and Felix are awesome. I don't think there's a fantasy protagonist as beast as Gotrek. He's one bad dwarf. There may have been others but they're not coming to mind at the moment. Sherlock Holmes stories are pretty cool too.

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  • SaviorsBlood story only gets better with each entry.

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  • I plan on reading the whole thing whenever I get a chance to read a chapter, and dropping my two cents in for each of them. You specifically might also be interested to know that an edited version of my story you critiqued a while back is on the Art and Stuff page, and that it is now One of about six or so parts I have in the works so far.

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  • Yeah, I saw the revised version. Nice, only hope I can do as well in my own story with my grammar (it can be rather messy to be honest, but I've seriously improved since my prologue).

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  • I am honestly in a super-tight (heh) time bind right now, I shouldn't even be on here with how much I need to be doing. However, I swear that When I get out of this fix, I will look at your story and do what I can to help. Quid Pro Quo. Grammar and spelling are the biggest things that I notice, so if that's your weak point, expect some lengthy replies. >:) Also, I feel that you fit in with a couple other people who've shown actual interest in my own story, so as long as you're still interested, I can PM some of the WIPs to you for editing/proofreading purposes, or just for kicks and gigs.

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  • Okay, I'll be honest, no idea what WIP stands for. Other than that, sounds good. Some of my chapters are longer than I anticipated, so editing can be a pain.

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  • Edited by GammaF88: 2/27/2014 12:28:32 AM
    Work In Progress. And don't worry about the length (also heh), I'll read it as soon as I get the time to.

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  • Ah, okay; sounds good. Keep me posted.

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