Think about how halo 3, bungie had thought about all their fans and made two separate playlists for casual gamers and competitive gamers and even had action sack with random game types. As for reach took several updates to finally add in a single competitive playlist, which until then even arena was causal. But causal gamers wont care to much for this post Cx

What's your definition of a casual gamer?

A gamer who does not care to play competitively. One who prefers fast and easy games and does not care to use only competitive aspects of the game but prefers the ones which progress easier or in other word, are cheap. For example; armor lock, jet packs, needlers, ARs, etc. or CoD.

First of all. [quote]armor lock, jet packs, needlers, ARs, etc. or CoD[/quote] Those abilities were put in there for a reason. Just because a person uses them, does not mean they are cheap or "Casual gamers." They use what is given to them to their advantage to win. Also. COD is one of the most competitive games out there. So I have no idea what you mean by that. Also, what about the people who play flappy bird and Angry birds? Your definition of a casual gamer is skewered. In the end, the people who you called casual are still playing "Fast and easy" games for one purpose. To win, and to have fun. Just like the so called "Hardcore gamers." Unless, we're going into MLG definitions here.

This is a fantastic example of perfect imbalance. OP weapons are put in games so that the new peoples can get their feet wet and still compete with experienced players. Experienced players don't like using the seemingly OP weapons because they may be good for newcomers, but they become less effective in comparison to an experienced marksman with lets say a sniper. OP weapons are good only to an extent. They can be good for the inexperienced, but good players are able to get more bang for their buck with with something else that they are exceptionally proficient with. Its hard to explain, but I hope I conveyed it good enough for you to understand.

You conveyed it perfectly. I'm putting together in my mind like this. In Boneyard BTB, everyone always rushes for the Sniper rifiles, banshee or tank. What do I go for? The plasma pistol, because to me, it is one of the most effective side arms in Halo. It can neutralize vehicles and take out shields, and it tracks. It's not the most powerful weapon, but it is sure as hell effective.

You're argument would be valid... If it were true. 1: yes, armor lock and jet packs are in fact cheap. Just because it's in a game doesn't mean it's not cheap. Otherwise every single game would be perfect. But that's not the case. 2: I play CoD a lot. I know for a fact it is not competitive. I've played GB (Gamebattles.com), the official site for competitive gaming for both halo and CoD. But really CoD is just run and gun spraying. It's a easy and causal game that 6year olds can be good at. 3: MLG is a great example of competitive gaming but not in reach cause that's when it started falling apart. Halo 3's MLG is the best example. Spawning with BRs, only power weapons were rockets, sniper and mauler plus the power ups.

1.Cheap,means you arent able to get around it. But wait, you [i]are[/i]. Both have easy counters and it takes minimal effort to get around them. It's called making use of what is given to you. 2.If there is a competitive gaming site for CoD,then obviously it's competitive. There is also something called MLG which has COD as one of it's games,so it obviously must be competitive.Don't try to dumb the game down because despite it's shortcomings(Read,Ghosts) COD delivers the type of every second counts action that some games can't. 3.LOL MLG started to fall apart after Reach. COD Champs got like 500k viewers League of Legends had 8 mill and sold an Arena. K. Now,I'm going to assume you meant [i]Halo's[/i] MLG started to fall apart after Reach. To those points you made, you seem to forget a good number of the community [i]asked[/i] for AA's and Loadouts,that's the problem with the Halo community,they are never content with any game. Also,while Halo did start to decline after reach,I attribute most of that blame to the rise of online multiplayer becoming a staple of most games and less to the changes in the game.

1:Just cause there are few ways to get around jet packs and armor lock, not to mention tons of other cheap aspects of reach which includes a [b]luck factor[/b] doesn't mean it's not cheap. You're argument is revolving around the ideal that if it's in the game and if it's usable then it's not cheap which in that case you would be implying that every single game in the world is a perfectly fare and competitive game, which is [i]not[/i] true. So you can rule that idea out. 2:Also just cause CoD is in MLG doesn't make it a good competitive game. I've been to tourneys and I've seen first hand pros and semi pros play. Honestly it's no different then your average CoD player. Just cause they get paid for beating certain people I'm 100% positive that they are not the best players out there. Ghost is a campers game and it's also doing worse then any other CoD out there. The only thing CoD is good for are those who post YouTube (Feeders and Trickshotters mostly) which may not be entirely skillful but more skillful than running around or sitting in a corner spaying with a 10% accuracy rate and getting kills in 2-3 shots. Not to mention it's entertaining. CoD doesn't take skill it's takes reaction time and a good internet connection. -Keep in mind I can speak from experience. I still play cod and I still play halo 3 and if I'm feeling bored enough I'll go okay reach. I've also played GB for halo 3, reach, MW2, MW3, and Bo2. So I know how comp works. I've been on some top teams, my personal favorite was Swat Kings back on Halo 3 in the Mayhem ladder just cause it was fun, i know swat isn't a very competitive gametype but it was fun.

1.But every game in the world [i]Is[/i] competitive. Rock paper scissors,is competitive,Pac Man is competitive.Armor lock has it's uses,so does jet packing.Because they are [i]tools[/i].And if you are good enough then a person using them should not even matter because they both have obvious weaknesses. 2.Well,Of course,there are people that are obviously better then Competitive players,youtubers like Ali-A or the Mark of J. But I honestly believe that Pro players put more work into perfecting their craft then semi pro players.

1: no not ever game is competitive. Also that's what makes jet packs and armor lock cheap. "If you're good enough" you [b]cannot[/b] always counter. It takes a lot of luck to be able to counter. It's not skill nor has anything to do with skill therefore is [i]cheap[/i]. 2: CoD is a campers game. Always will be. In a good competitive game you shouldn't be able to stay in one place the whole game and win. What makes CoD not skillful is the [b]fact[/b] that you can; stay in one place and win, spawn with OP weapons, has a high [u]luck[/u] factor.

1.Actually yes, whether a game is competitive or not depends on if the person can make it competitive, it's the will to win, to be better over your opponent that makes it competitive in some way, whether it's beating someone's time or winning a game of CTF, give me one game that is not competitive. Armor Lock-Wait 3 and a half seconds, while watching your radar and throw a grenade, or just keep your distance and kill him since his shields are down. Jetpacking-Crouch or quickly jump to the left or right or use any other armor ability that you have. 2.If you are able to stay in One place for the whole entire game then that is merely on the incompetence of the players. Not the person for taking advantage. However, if you are holding down an area, chokepoints, long sightlines, etc. Then you are not camping. OP weapons are usually disallowed in MLG matches and you should use the same OP weapons. Get over this sense of pride you have by not using some of the stuff the game gives you because it's cheap.

1: Just cause people are competitive doesn't make the game competitive. And you're methods of avoiding cheap aspects of a game don't always work. You can't avoid a jet pack. And in order to avoid armor lock you have to have your team near by cause armor lock users always have someone spamming nades or spaying you down then the switch and so on. 2: in CoD it's not the other team not having the "skill" to get around campers and such. It's the maps design in which sitting I a corner on a head glitch can easily win you the game. And it's not my "pride" it's the [b]logic[/b] you lack cause you're offended since you seem to be one of these people.

1.I'm still waiting for you to give me one game that is not competitive. You can't avoid a jetpack? Evade Sprint Cloak Drop shield. And all you have to do is literally pace your shots and keep your aim. It's not that hard. As for Armor lock, take cover. Wait and then peek out from cover again. Unless you're in an open area. Which you shouldn't be since that's a death sentence in halo, or any other multiplayer FPS game for that matter. 2.Am I a casual gamer? Or a hardcore gamer? I'm neither, I play to have fun first and to win second though in the heat of a game winning may come first,I don't separate myself into moronic categories like those. Not once have I ever seen a person,(In+5 years if playing COD) head glitch from one spot and win the entire match. Especially in objective modes. There is a counter for everything, get a sniper, stay low, and snipe his head. Problem solved. Now [i]that [/i]is logic. Unless you're one of those people who keep running blindly into their line of sight.

1: I'm explaining to you how CoD is not competitive. Again, just cause people are competitive doesn't mean the game is. For example you claimed even pacman was competitive which is not true. You're not gonna see pacman in MLG. It's an arcade game designed to pass time and entertain nothing more nothing less. Just cause it has a leader board doesn't make it competitive. You're ideals of avoiding these cheap aspects don't always work. It's a [b]luck[/b] factor. You're not always gonna have places to go you're not always gonna have weapons you need and one who wants to be competitive and fair will not use these cheap aspects just cause another team is. From an aspect of a former comp halo 3 GB player me and my team and my friends and their friends and so on, from old comp, will not summit to use of cheap aspects such as ARs, Armor lock, jet packs, anything out of MLG rules basically. If jet packs are on the map like they are in the MLG playlist one will grab it and not use so that the other team has only 1. Our hope is to bring more people into a comp atmosphere but it never works out. 2: ever since reach came out I've been going back and forth playing halo 3, halo reach, halo 4, CoD4, Mw2, Mw3, Bo2, and recently Ghost. There aren't many years in that timespan but I can assure you that there are in fact places and ways to sit in a corner the entire game and still win. If you'd like for me to do so, I will record the next few times this happens, post it on YouTube and link it to you. Also you're [i]logic[/i] is [i]weak[/i] and [i]unsupported[/i]. I'm not one of those people running in anywhere. I'm a feeder/Trickshotter. The only time I use any time of assault rifle or smg is in either league play or in GB. LMGs are op and cheap. Shot guns are op and cheap. Tell me how you play CoD, what you use and your gameplay style to help me better understand why you think CoD isn't a casual game.

1.So because a game isn't in MLG, it's not competitive? No offense, but that logic is flawed. Pac Man is competitive. Was it [i]meant [/i]to be competitive?Of course not, it was meant to be a game to have fun, [u]but that's the same with every other game.[/u] Every game has the capacity to be competitive because of the people who play it. Donkey Kong is competitive, they have yearly tournaments to see who can beat the score on the leaderboard, Pac Man uses the same system, somewhere out there, there are thousands of people who see a highscore on the Pac-man leaderboard and say "Hey, I want to beat that." Every game was meant to be fun and every game has the capacity to be competitive. [quote]You're ideals of avoiding these cheap aspects don't always work. It's a luck factor.[/quote] Newsflash, it works both ways. The camper in the corner doesn't always win, and the jetpacker or armor locker doesn't always come out on top. Stop acting like they do. [quote]You're not always gonna have places to go you're not always gonna have weapons you need and one who wants to be competitive and fair will not use these cheap aspects just cause another team is. [/quote] My god your conviction is honorable but at the same time it's so naive. Bro, in MLG matches, do you think they care about being fair?Or when in GB's when moving up the ladder is essential?No. If you win without them, good on you. But when times running down and you're running out of options, it doesn't matter. You acting and whining like these things don't have a counter but they do, either you're to lazy to do it, or you lack the required skill. I mean really, you are acting like the people who use these things have aimbot and infinite health. [quote]but I can assure you that there are in fact places and ways to sit in a corner the entire game and still win. If you'd like for me to do so, I will record the next few times this happens, post it on YouTube and link it to you. [/quote] No, what I want you to do is to have a friend sit in a corner and try to camp and when the entire game, and I want you to use my advice and figure out someway to kill the all powerful camper. It makes no point if you get teams of scrubs who can't use common sense. [quote]LMGs are op and cheap. Shot guns are op and cheap. Tell me how you play CoD, what you use and your gameplay style to help me better understand why you think CoD isn't a casual game. [/quote] LMG's are for holding down chokepoints and long lines of sight as well as oppressing fire. They are not cheap. Shot guns are solely for close to semi mid range encounters. They are not cheap, if you find yourself getting killed by them, you should leave them alone and focus on other targets unless you [i]really [/i]have to kill them. So, no. My logic is not"Weak" nor "Unsupported." [quote] Tell me how you play CoD, what you use and your gameplay style to help me better understand why you think CoD isn't a casual game. [/quote] I play COD however the situation deems necessary. If I need to rush. I rush. If I need to stay back and Snipe, ok. If I need to hold down an area or choke points, you got it. If I need to play the objective, I shall. I don't restrict myself to certain types of play. Though I do have a fondness for SMG's and holding down areas. You know, I'm going to say this. COD is both a casual and competitive game. That is one of the main reasons it's been around so long.

You're clearly not reading enough as I provided several examples no just MLG being competitive. Also you're not accepting the [b]fact[/b] that all you're ideas don't work. Furthermore, this argument is pointless since you're obviously defending CoD as a competitive game because that's how you like to think you play it there for you are offended and you're logic of competitive gameplay is blinded. So with that said, you can't think CoD is a competitive game and reach isn't cheap, but just know if you want to see a true competitive game go play halo 3.

What are you talking about?My ideas do work,and what happened to that Bravado you displayed?I'll be waiting for that recording. Because every game can be competitive,ergo,CoD is competitive.I'm still waiting for a game that isn't competitive.Come on,give me one. I've already played Halo 3. And I mainly play it for fun, not competitiveness. You seem to be stuck on your flawed and naive ideals. So,with this being said. I shall be waiting for a game that is not competitive,and that recording. Unless you were just all bark and no bite.

My ideas aren't flawed. You're clearly just offended and defending yourself a a CoD player.

Lol I don't even play CoD that much.I haven't touched a CoD disc in three weeks,I mainly play reach,3,GTA V and Naruto.

Lol wow. Then why defend CoD. Naruto is a more and better competitive game. I don't see how GTA could be everyone just screws around. I don't know one person who takes GTA serious.