It dosent ash, hes just trolling.

I'm not going into semantics on the OP, because I think he outlined alot of concerns that many members are concerned over, and his subsequent posts and response from GJJ discussing the Column and Bungie involvement are great. Frankly, Elitism happens. I'm guilty of "being an upper class "snob"" I suppose. I hang out in the underground and Septagon, and I avoid New Mombassa, Optimatch, Halo 3 forum, and the Flood. I hide in groups on the off days when the forum is slow. I stopped postin those forums when I began to feel that it was all pointless. The users continued to discuss things that had already been answered, and reanswered, and answered into oblivion. There is little thread progression, because they all decide that the world needs just one more "cheaters OMG Bungy Ghey" or "DO you think tThe Pistle shuld reeturn?" Or the great "Mstee Cheif vs Marcuz Fenixks" threads. So I stopped trying. I'm a "good Member" nowdays by spending my time making sure the Septagon and Underground have things to discuss and talk about. Frankly, more than anything in t he world, I would just like to play some rounds of Halo with Bungie. It's been a fevered dream of mine since I became a Bungie addict. [b] Currently I'm trying to organise a minor Seventh Column meet at PAX 07'. Perhaps instead of -blam!-ing about the lack of fan events, maybe you could try helping me out?[/b].

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] elmicker [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ash55 You don't have to be a Bungie fanboy drone for you to be a respected member (or at least I hope...) Debate and difference of opinion is what drives the forum, not "LoLz Shishka! PWN'T!". I think whoever wrote this doesn't have much faith in the moderators to differenciate an obvious (or subtle) "brown-noser" from someone who can actually be [i]trusted.[/i][/quote] You're spending far too much time hiding in your groups if you honestly think that.[/quote] Well it's pretty much true. How much do you respect nameless random people who comment on every little joke a mod makes? I don't even know the names of these people, let alone respect them. It happens far too often, though.

I totally agree with the bit about Bungie-contracted community people spending more time at HBO than the forum they've been contracted to work on. That makes no sense to me. Also, I think all of these shenanigans are a bit out of proportion here; this post makes it seem as if we're dealing with dirty politics, not a web forum. Granted, this might be important to some, but I don't think as many people need to get as worked up as they are over it.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ash55 You don't have to be a Bungie fanboy drone for you to be a respected member (or at least I hope...) Debate and difference of opinion is what drives the forum, not "LoLz Shishka! PWN'T!". I think whoever wrote this doesn't have much faith in the moderators to differenciate an obvious (or subtle) "brown-noser" from someone who can actually be [i]trusted.[/i][/quote] You're spending far too much time hiding in your groups if you honestly think that.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Code Zero [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Frankie Shut up nerds.[/quote] This quote gets to me because everyone seems to find it funny. I guess it's kind of funny, coming from Frankie. Pretty random. Also ironic. But still, if any regular member would have said this it wouldn't get nearly as much publicity.[/quote] Well, I'm not sure if you saw the thread, [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=10229352]and what it was about..[/url] But it was pretty funny. Yes, if it was any other member, no one would care, but isn't the topic starter here (or whoever they're posting through/for/becauseofthatfavortheydidfortheirmom) saying they want more activity from them? In a sense, he's also just caring only because they're Bungie employees. [Edited on 3/14/2007]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] x Foman123 x Being a reader, I am always inclined to read carefully written and long posts with much more interest and care than a short post. This post was no exception, and I read the whole thing carefully. Please keep that in mind as you read this reply further. I am going to disagree with those people who say it is well-written. But to be fair, I write persuasive and argumentative pieces for a living; my standards may be a bit high. I want to respond at length to this rant, and although I know that anything more than three paragraphs long on these forums is unlikely to be read thoroughly, I believe that most of the Septagon knows my posts well enough for this to catch your attention. Throughout this post, I will refer to "you." When I say that, I am referring to the original poster - not snowman, but whomever he posted for. [b][u]This Is Not the Bungie Soap Opera[/b][/u] I am too old for the social games we all used to play in high school. I remember them well, and your rant smacks of trying to revive or transpose them onto a video game developer's website. [b]I resent you for attempting to do this.[/b] And I think that "resent" is possibly not strong enough a word. I resent you [i]and anybody and everybody else who feeds into this[/i] for attempting to turn a fun and lighthearted way to kill time during my workday into a horrifying, juvenile, intimidating melodrama. I am in my late twenties, a fully grown man with an undergraduate and a graduate professional degree. Despite the large amount of time I spend here, perhaps I see things through a different lens, as my job takes me all over the world and my co-workers and clients are people with real power - CEOs of some of the world's largest corporations, politicians with names that I guarantee you would recognize, and attorneys/judges who have helped to mold and change the laws that affect our daily lives. So excuse me if I fail to see how becoming or not becoming a moderator on Bungie isn't the most important goal in the world. I was popular in high school, as I was an all-star football player and a straight-A student, so please don't think that I am simply being a "sore loser" when I say that I was thrilled to leave the gossiping, sophomoric, worthless discussions that my "popular" friends got into far behind. Your attempt to revive this kind of false social hierarchy on this website is offensive beyond words to me. Perhaps I am being a bit harsh. I do not want to sound dismissive. The following statement will sound like a cliche, but I say it honestly and from the bottom of my heart: I believe that you have seen too many episodes of "The Real World" and its ilk. It must be realized that this is not a reality TV show or a soap opera, and we are not actors in a melodrama. When viewed through the lens of melodrama and politics, everything seems to have more weight and impact. When it comes down to it, this is a video game website. Even being a moderator is not "real" power - it is perceived power. Sure, they can ban you, or whatever, and they get special text, but when it comes down to it, a moderator is still a guy just sitting at his computer - just like you. You claim that you were "used" as someone else's springboard to power. In keeping with this "soap opera" theme, you seem to feel betrayed and dismayed by some other unnamed person's promotion to moderator over you. Well you know what? Boo hoo. I -- along with many other non-moderators who post regularly in the Septagon -- would love to become a moderator. I have a genuine interest in the Community and I am a huge Bungie fan. I do what I can to help the Community, trying to come up with new ideas, post intelligently at all hours of the day and night, discuss others' posts thoroughly using logic and reason rather than emotion and insults, pass along "bad posts" to the forum moderators, and even help Gods Prophet to run The Guide, so that new users just getting involved in the 7th Column have a place to go to find interesting information, reviews, and interviews. I have done what I can to distinguish myself in this Community, and I think that I would make a great moderator. I could lay out the reasons here, but I do not feel that this is the appropriate place to engage in shameless self-promotion. Instead, my point is to say that if I never "get the promotion," I will not feel slighted or betrayed in any way. I do not want to be a moderator for the power, but rather to help the Community. And that is what YOU and every other person in this Community (moderators and regular members alike) should similarly desire. As long as someone is helping to clean things up and keeping things active and intelligent, I will be happy to spend my free time here on bungie.net. Moderator or not. I do admit to wanting to become a moderator, but not for power reasons. Rather, to help this FUN and ENTERTAINING WEBSITE be more interesting. You haughtily refer to a 7th Column "aristocracy" and "upper class," using the words that you know have a negative connotation in order to imply your apparent disapproval of this stratification. You seem to forget that even you admitted that some people who post here are morons and some are clearly more intelligent than others. I see absolutely nothing wrong with attempting to distinguish oneself by posting intelligently, nor with preferring to associate and identify with peers who one sees as similarly intelligent or creative. To do so does not mean that you are elitist, but rather that you prefer to a have a place on bungie.net where you do not have to wade through forum games, spam, and classified ads just to find an intelligent and meaningful discussion. If you turn these forums into some kind of ridiculous false power game, you will inevitably start to see ghosts that are not there and feel betrayed if you are not the individual to "rise up the social ladder" (or however you put it). [b][u]The Latest Batch of Moderators[/b][/u] I must forcefully and emphatically disagree with any notion that the "latest batch" of moderators is some kind of failure. Such a statement or implication is an obscene miscarriage of the truth - even if it IS based entirely on some anonymous person's subjective ideas of what makes a good moderator. In my role for The Guide, I have had the opportunity to have extremely in-depth conversations with many of our forum moderators. I have asked them pointed and blunt questions and seen nothing but a genuine desire to help the Community. I know what power-hunger looks like, and I also know that a person who is truly power-hungry will not be drawn to a video game website. What you find in the more distinguished ranks of the Bungie Community are people who genuinely want to help and exchange thoughtful ideas, and make things easier for all to navigate. That is what it IS and SHOULD BE about. Nothing more. The moderators whom I have interviewed for the Guide have not only said that they have a genuine interest in helping the Community, but proved it by being ruthless but fair in locking bad threads, banning bad users, and contributing to the Community in wholly meaningful, intelligent, and helpful ways. I am not an ass-kisser, and make no mistake: I am not going to be kissing the ass of some person who is ten years younger than me merely because they type in white text. But I am going to be fair. And that means calling you and your false statements out for the self-serving, despicable lies that they are. [b][u]Conclusion[/u][/b] In conclusion, I believe that you feel pretty great about yourself after writing this. It seems to me that the [i]primary[/i] purpose of the post is not motivated by a desire to help the Community, but rather a desire to make yourself feel self-righteous about the fact that you are not a moderator. Ironically, you not only had no choice in not becoming a moderator, but you even [i]wanted[/i] it badly enough to feel betrayed when someone else became a moderator over you. I despise this thread because it adds nothing to the Community and nothing to the fun and entertainment value of bungie.net. Instead, this thread attempts to take something fun and entertaining that I love and turn it into the halls of my high school / a reality TV show. For this reason, I will not be responding any further in this thread. Instead, I'm going to head over to the Halo 3 forum and discuss X Button theories and graphics. This thread cannot and will not take the fun of the Bungie website away from me.[/quote] Quoted for truth. I could not agree more with this post, even tho I could never post with as much eliquence and style as Foman. This site is supposed to be fun, and you are turning it into a reality show. Please, please, please stop. [Edited on 3/14/2007]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Frankie Shut up nerds.[/quote] This quote gets to me because everyone seems to find it funny. I guess it's kind of funny, coming from Frankie. Pretty random. Also ironic. But still, if any regular member would have said this it wouldn't get nearly as much publicity.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ash55 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] elmicker [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ICEMAN ASSASS1N A new member comes to the site, sees a mod post and thinks "Cool, who's that guy?" So he may try to get some attention from said moderator because he's curious. So what? Big deal, he said "LOL that was funny I agree."[/quote] That's fine. Its when 2+ year old members start trying it on to gain favour and powers. Which, contrary to Ash's rather circular post, does, actually, happen.[/quote] Hmmm... Yes people quote Achronos all the time. I agreed with that. How is that contrary to what you're saying? .[/quote] and frankie. [quote]Shut up nerds.[/quote] Older member quote moderators and admins a lot because they like and trust them. Over the time that they have been here they have gotten to know them, have had conversations with them, and possibly even played from games outside of bungie with them. They should trust the moderators too, they protect them from possibly malicious virus links, pornographic links, and other harmful interweb things. (adding to Icemans post) Newer members quote moderators and admins because they are new, they think that the mods and admins are nice and funny. They don't want to get any power from them (usually) they just want to enjoy there time and they know that it's the moderators and admins that help them do that. Also, could someone eplain to me in a PM what TFM is. Thanks. [Edited on 3/14/2007]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Comrade_Max Right, I don't post much in the main forums anymore and am one of the founding members of TFM and honestly i'm tired of all of this, people think we are an ultra secret group of people who travel round in small blacked out cars occasionally getting out to twat people over the head with bats, this as much as you want to be true is not we are just a group of people who are tired of suck ups, are tired of people constantly complaining, yet half the time it seems we don't even have to do anything to raise an eyebrow or get someone to involentarily soil themselves. We are just a group of people working away from the main forum thats all if you can't understand that then please don't talk about something you don't understand.[/quote] He's right you know. We don't have to do anything anymore and we get blamed, it's ridiculous.

[quote]Would we still have these problems, or these threads?[/quote] Most likely not..

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] elmicker [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ICEMAN ASSASS1N A new member comes to the site, sees a mod post and thinks "Cool, who's that guy?" So he may try to get some attention from said moderator because he's curious. So what? Big deal, he said "LOL that was funny I agree."[/quote] That's fine. Its when 2+ year old members start trying it on to gain favour and powers. Which, contrary to Ash's rather circular post, does, actually, happen.[/quote] I see what you're saying. In that case, it does seem like someone's trying to score the fabled "Mod points." The majority of us have been at that stage where we look up to certain members/moderators for their status. Eventually though, a "phasing out" takes place, where the member realizes that moderators are just normal individuals who volunteer on the forums. Sometimes I think too much emphasis is placed on the "Social" ladder of this site (i.e. status by way of "title.") Though in the end, this thread is still about a user's concern with this site, but.......we've seen it all before. Heck, I haven't been here a year and I can remember a time when the Septagon was flooded with threads that just dealt with Ninjas (whether it's about criticism, support, or questions.) I sometimes wonder what it would be like if we had NO titles- as in moderators had the title of "member" and no white text, and same selection of avatars......but with the toolbars. Would we still have these problems, or these threads? Maybe, maybe not......

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ICEMAN ASSASS1N A new member comes to the site, sees a mod post and thinks "Cool, who's that guy?" So he may try to get some attention from said moderator because he's curious. So what? Big deal, he said "LOL that was funny I agree."[/quote] That's fine. Its when 2+ year old members start trying it on to gain favour and powers. Which, contrary to Ash's rather circular post, does, actually, happen.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ash55 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Code Zero Well, I never claimed that people got anywhere by doing it, but you can't argue that people do quote authority in attempt to increase their chances. That's the part that I thought was very true.[/quote] Ah right. The person you quoted seemed to think that anyone who doesn't quote Achronos, and tell him how great he is, disappears into the abyss some how (and thus "suck-ups" prevail). Yeah, I agree that is not the case.[/quote] When I quote Achronos, it is because he is the final authority here. He knows far more about the new Hawtness than any of us. Furthermore, he sets the policies here. If he says there are going to be no custom avatars, then we can argue about it but it will not happen. I disagree with him quite often, but I have enough common sense to know he has the final word.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] JAY132 I can't believe I missed this whilst I spent the night painting my Tug. God diggity damn.[/quote] Does it look nice bud? You'll have to show me via Video Chat via Xbox Live on the Xbox 360 Premium.

Sometimes I think you guys take this site too seriously..... Now, I guess you can call me the "Halo 2" member who joined because he wanted the cool 'Bungie.net' logo behind his name, and spent his initial time hanging out in the Halo 3 Forum. But the more time I spent here, the more I grew to like this place. This isn't like other forums-it's wild, it's crazy, it's........DIFFERENT. Even though this place can get boring at times, when there's nothing going on, people still come to see what's up. People who said they'd never make another public post are posting in this very thread. People who said they'd quit this site are back in a week. I don't know what's so appealing with this place, so I'll assume that we all just like Bungie and their community (why else would you come here?) Now........there are a LOT of [b]Grumpy[/b] members. Like the old man who sits on his lawn making sure kids stay away. Y'all need to lighten up, seriously. A new member comes to the site, sees a mod post and thinks "Cool, who's that guy?" So he may try to get some attention from said moderator because he's curious. So what? Big deal, he said "LOL that was funny I agree." Have you ever stopped to think that everyone is gettin all bent out of shape on the happenings of a message board? Granted, this is a tight-knit community, and I'm sure most of the "veterans" just want what's best. But you have to understand that this site's a cycle, you guys should've realized this a while ago based on how long you've been here. We all can tell the obvious signs of "Forum copping" and whatnot. Sure, people who say "This thread will be locked, I have notified a moderator" can seem a bit.........annoying (?) but hey, just deal. They ain't bothering you, right? Drop 'em a line in a PM saying what's up, and [b]don't[/b] insult them. On a personal note, some of you Frozen Minority kids need to chill. You guys need [i]tact[/i] yo, because I've spoken to a lot of you through Private messanges and some of the stuff you reply back with are pretty messed up for people who "want what's best." But that's just a personal note, there are some good people in that group, but overall this site needs to relax and go with the flow, yo. [Edited on 3/14/2007]

good things can come out of this thread, but the original author needs to defend what was written.

I have a single, monumentous, thing, to add to this thread. LOLOLOL.

Personally I feel that if you care enough about the politics of this site as to actually put time and effort into a rant, your no better than the elitists you claim ruin the community. There are elitists here, big woop, a mod turned out to be sour, oh no, the world is going to end. I would like to see more Bungie interaction in the forums sure, but it is not vital to my survival as a forumite to talk to a Bungie staffer, and I doubt it would do anything but increase the traffic of suckups. The Bungie community as it was pre-Halo is a collection of people who like to interact with one another, and have fun together, doing whatever it is they feel like doing. It was relatively small and tight nit, think small town. The current B.net is like a city, it is not possible to have such a community exist here anymore, too many people, the type of people that floods various forums does not help either. The problem is that quite a few people WANT that kind of old-school community again, but I feel that due to a combination of too many people and the mindset of young people these days, it won't happen outside of a group, the oldschool users tried doing this, but even their lives chang and their starting to "die" off. I don't like that, it's sad that such a thing happened, I am a small town liking guy myself, but the world is changing and sadly in order for Bungie to be sucessfull it needs a large fanbase and so what we see happen now is a necessity to them as a company. And just like small towns everywhere, enough people didn't care about the community they lost in favour of the new that was given to them, and so those who do care are left outnumbered and have no choice but to go quietly into the night. Melodrama aside, the ranter needs to get over himself, B.net is not going back to the way it was as a tight nit community, with The New Hotness v2.0 hopefully we will see the founding of a bigger, more organized community, but it won't be the same, and people need to either start accepting that, or get on with their lives away from Bungie. --EDIT-- Damn it, I re-wrote this thing 3 times and it's still to long, ah well. [Edited on 3/14/2007]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] snowmanaxt7 Ultimately, I am wasting my words. Next thing you know, JAY132 and [b][i]Jeff McCrae[/i][/b] will be sitting there proudly with the titles of “Forum Ninja” under their usernames.[/quote] You spelled my last name incorrectly, [b][i]idiot[/i][/b].

Well, I never claimed that people got anywhere by doing it, but you can't argue that people do quote authority in attempt to increase their chances. That's the part that I thought was very true.