What if we're not talking to Riven? But, that's still the spirit of Riven. Something seemed off.... when playing through "Starcrossed". Memory vs. recall The encoding specificity principle. Memory is the data... recall is the process of retrieval. If, let's say, you were a spirit... and I took control of you... that data, memories would exist... I could then display or represent that data. Memory traces might not, meaning ancillary & collaborative to the source data set but independent of it - the memory. Here's a rudimentary example of what I'm talking about. Using the alphabet to recall a name. "It's right at the tip of my tongue... I know it, I know I know it... the guy we went to high school with... you know... he always wore basketball shorts... he got on the varsity team his sophomore year... his girlfriend was captain of the debate team you were on. A...b, c,d...."? "Eric, his name was Eric". Why didn't Riven know what was going on until the end of the mission? She seemed genuinely confused... angry at the prospect that an Amhakara would have hidden the eggs. Until the end. The data is there, but if someone was controlling or had corrupted the spirit of Riven... that controlling force might not be able the connect or retrieve the ancillary information or recognize its relationship to that data... those memories. Let's again use the previous example... basketball shorts... the alphabet. These things could be right in front of my face... how would I make the connection to "Eric"? You couldn't unless you experienced and could recall those memory traces. Which it seemed like Riven was unable to do. The data... the memory is there... can be accessed and displayed compartmentalized... but the ancillary corroboration, the memory traces are not recognized. How did Riven not know where this was leading? All season... but especially when we were traversing the refuge of Taranis in The Black Garden? Seems off... If we were actually talking to the spirit of Riven, how did she not know? The independent ancillary data should have triggered that recall as we progressed through the season and the Black Garden during Starcrossed. But it didn't. "O' guardian mine". "O' murderer mine". That a very specific cadence. Who does that sound like?😉 Weren't the eggs safe? Tell me again, why we're retrieving them? And the 1st one... where did we find it? It's a little convoluted in a vacuum, like in Scooby Doo... you remove one mask, and there's another mask underneath. However, considering past events... I think we're talking to the spirit of Riven being controlled/corrupted by Savathun. It sounds like Savathun. She can access and recite her memories, but corroborating data... even when in front of her face seems to have no relevance to it. She can talk about Taranis, but until that data manifested... she was clueless. This is my prediction: This IS Savathun tying off more loose ends. This is Calus... Rhulk. Anyone who could compromise her possibly placing her at risk. This is Savathun... seriously don't click this, I don't know... but it might be a huge spoiler. This is Savathun... [spoiler]Killing Mara Sov... exposing Mara Sov... removing Mara Sov as a threat to her takeover. [/spoiler] Something we're doing now will... again, don't click... if you want to be surprised... we will... [spoiler]sever Mara'a link to her throne world & then she's going to die. [/spoiler] I think we're going back at some point this season to... [spoiler]The Shattered Throne to do just that.[/spoiler] One of the markers for me, as I stated, is "The encoding specificity principle"... but also Crow's apathy this week per our failure initially... almost like it was on purpose. Like he knows what is going on & where it is going to lead... but he can't trust anyone around him. He can't trust anyone... except for MAYBE? one person? The irony being that they do not trust Crow right now. Joylon. TLDR: The spirit of Riven is corrupted and being controlled/puppet'd by Savathun. And Crow knows it... He wasn't late this week... he saved the egg, didn't lose it. To expose his sister... to expose the imposter controlling the spirit of Riven. Uldren/Crow is best on his back... in his guard, as a counter puncher. That's what he's doing right now. The difference? Before... it was guided by bad intentions. Crow has finally made the choice... That's what I think. To brave the storm... without compromise. Another example of the conceit I'm talking about is a famous sci-fi film... "Total Recall". Based on P.K.D's short story, "We Can Remember It for You Wholesale". 🎶"For the memory of a lifetime... Rekal, Rekal, Rekal". 🎵 [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFAp13bbOFQ[/url] Quail/Hauser (Quaid in the movie) found out that he was a puppet... at the end, that was the big reveal. The core theme... the title "Total Recall" is related to "The encoding specificity principle". Quail/Hauser was able to be manipulated because he didn't have the capacity for "Total Recall". Note: Quail & Hauser are the same person... kinda'. Hauser was corrupt, Quail was a blank slate. The movie and short story hide the conclusion in plain sight - the protagonist goes to Rekal... chooses a fantasy experience about being a secret agent, chooses his heroine... like a character creation system in a video game... [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ2ujVlwcJc[/url] All the while, both he "Douglas Quail" and the audience was unaware that it was all true. But, he didn't know... KNOW, the choices he made were unconscious... he was pinging on those memory traces per "The encoding specificity principle" but couldn't connect the dots. Even when... a short time later in the story, he meets up with said heroine... he still couldn't remember. [i]"Melina. Melina. - I have to tell you something. - I don't remember you. I don't remember you. I don't remember us. I don't even remember me" (Total Recall 1990).[/i] Just like Riven this season and in the Starcrossed mission. Also, I'm not just talking about the spirit of Riven either. Just like US. I'm talking about us, our memories... OUR GHOSTS 😇 👍💠. That's why Crow can't trust anyone... even us. That's why I made this topic: "Crow is no longer a Guardian, ominous..." [url]https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/263531586?sort=0&page=0[/url]