@Mooser323 We both know that vetoing doesn't always work our way.

it is so im with you on that

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Remember TF @Severan Dude, how am I stomping around the forums yelling at the top of my lungs that this map is garbage? Yea I have said that this map is garbage, but my first post was the only one that really mentioned that post, and no emphasis was even put into it. You keep going back to this subject about me trying to be cool? I could give a crap less of what people on a forum think of me. This isn't a popularity contest. The only reason I called out you is because you are one of about 5 people on this thread that tries to convince gamers that a poorly made is actually good. Yea Bungie is a business, you even said that they will do what the community wants. So if they will do what the community wants, look at all of the previous posts. I guarantee that the majority of plays dislike this map. In this overall thread, your argument of approving the cage is like a mosquito to a freight train, and the others who like this map are just other random insects. Everyone is on board with the fact that the cage is horrible. Petty advice won't change that.[/quote] Apart from some of his more clumsy rhetoric he has successfully called you out on making ad hom remarks rather than discussing the article. And there you go again stating that those with contrary views are "random insects". Perhaps it's just possible that a loud minority dislikes the map and that most of actually ok with it and don't have anything negative to say? For the record I had another classic match on Cage yesterday winning 50-49 with a last gasp sniper spree. I guess I'm just brilliant.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] driedroasted For the record I had another classic match on Cage yesterday winning 50-49 with a last gasp sniper spree. I guess I'm just brilliant.[/quote] That has no bearing on the integral flaw of the snipe tower walkways. I could pull random stats out of my butt all day, they do not help the cage's case. They do not add flow, they stop it. There needs to be more ways out of the sniper tower area. There simply isn't enough ways out and in most cases, games come to a halting grind for several minutes. [Edited on 11.06.2010 12:53 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] rusty eagle [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] driedroasted For the record I had another classic match on Cage yesterday winning 50-49 with a last gasp sniper spree. I guess I'm just brilliant.[/quote] That has no bearing on the integral flaw of the snipe tower walkways. I could pull random stats out of my butt all day, they do not help the cage's case. They do not add flow, they stop it. There needs to be more ways out of the sniper tower area. There simply isn't enough ways out and in most cases, games come to a halting grind for several minutes.[/quote] Unfortunately I'm not seeing those flaws. I only cite a reasonably typical match as "evidence" of having fun. And that is the most important quality a map can have. Then again I'm not a pro like some of you guys. So only two ways out? Suck it up. You've got a structure you can take cover in and if you're pinned down then call for help. And the game's got jetpacks for goodness sake. Else die and respawn some other place. Problem solved :)

I still have yet to see anyone name a map that everyone can agree is a great map with few (if any at all) problems.

this is frekin --blam!-!- im on probation quiting and it's not my fault [Edited on 11.07.2010 8:46 AM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ang3l Awesome read..... but The Cage is a terrible map.[/quote] The Cage isn't that bad of a map.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Severan I still have yet to see anyone name a map that everyone can agree is a great map with few (if any at all) problems.[/quote] That day will never happen. Looking forward to the new maps though, they look interesting.

bump

I take great pride in the ideas I tend to make in forge,its easy to just think of how you're map is gonna look like but, making it to how you want it to look is the challendge. Im currently making a map that I just started to throw together wich I hope some of you like when its actualy finished im not to skilled in map forgeing but it does make me wanna test out my createtivity. Test playing the map is essiential, you wanna make sure you edit and make the necessary tweaks so it's fun. [Edited on 11.07.2010 6:56 PM PST]

It's easy to say this map sux but, put yourself in their shoes. When you make a map honestly you are scared on how the community is gonna react to it. Just take a deep breath and just ship it, you might never kno it could be great or not,if not look at ways you can make it better. Not putting their map out there and not getting constructive critasism doesn't help future maps to get any better. Just saying hey this needs to be better and etc.. im sure the map that players make they put alot of time into making maps for the community to enjoy.

Nah, this is all backwards. The community is the one that needs to teach Bungie how to make decent maps. Cause I swear to God, if I play The Cage one more -blam!- time.... But at least now I know what was going on in Bungie's head when they created their legion of God awful maps. That whole "isolated combat spaces" pretty explains why each map is so bad. Isolated combat spaces cannot be done outside of room-based maps. The Call of Duty style maps that encourage no teamwork other than "everyone camp in the same room." Of course, many maps in Reach do involve camping. For instance, the best strategy on Zealot is to gather everyone up and storm through the hallways. This strategy takes no thinking or adaptation, and is therefore bad for competitive gaming. It's made even worse when you start to shoot back and one of the players goes into armor lock. That's why when good players play Zealot, it's just 4 people spamming the trigger and waiting for people to pop out of armor lock. This obviously creates a very small skill gap. On the other hand, many of the maps have these isolated areas as open space that are connected with narrow bridges. These narrow bridges are a death trap for anyone who tries to pass, inevitably breaking any and all map movement. ie: on Pinnacle, people can easily camp on big tower and slaughter anyone who wants to [I]play[/I] Halo. On the Cage, people just choose jetpacks to avoid being destroyed on these pathways. Now, jetpacks do break the game in that someone flying at level can easily get 3-4 shots before being located. It also makes any of the maps cover virtually useless. So when you're in a 4v4 and 8 people are all using jetpacks, it is inherently bad. So a map like the cage that encourages everyone to choose jetpacks is inherently bad. And, of course, in Slayer Pro, people just get dominated on the bridges. And please don't say I'm just bad at the game. It's almost the opposite. Whenever I go into matchmaking, I completely dominate the average person. Only difference is that I can easily dominate. In CE and H2, I had to really try my heart out to beat people because of the subtle complexity of strategy that most of the maps provoked. Now, I can do the same simple strategy over and over again always with the same outcome. When I play customs with people of similar skill, the games ultimately end in a stale mate, 50-49 kind of game where both teams know the one and only dominating strategy, causing what is supposed to be a skillful game to be decided by this game's bloom (or any other random, luck-based factor). EDIT [url=http://www.forgehub.com/forum/forging-201/97349-map-design-theory-knowledge.html]BETTER THREAD ON MAP DESIGN[/url] ^I realize this thread is long and confusing, but frankly, the way Bungie has been designing maps lately is horribly flawed. If you ever want a map that compares to some of the glory that existed in Halo CE's maps, then you'll have to use Forgehub's tutorial, and completely forget the (and I hate to say this) garbage tutorial that Bungie threw at you. [Edited on 11.11.2010 8:07 AM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] LinkLegend0 I'm sorry but The Cage sucks...[/quote] Yeah I agree with that i made a map myself by the waterfalls its called Waterfall :) some of my friends said it was better than the Cage(there's a banshee :P) you wanna check it out here's a link to download ithttp://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=7985906&player=HMBRGR thnx if you guys do [Edited on 11.09.2010 7:41 AM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HMBRGR [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] LinkLegend0 I'm sorry but The Cage sucks...[/quote] Yeah I agree with that i made a map myself by the waterfalls its called Waterfall :) some of my friends said it was better than the Cage(there's a banshee :P) you wanna check it out here's a link to download ithttp://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=7985906&player=HMBRGR thnx if you guys do [/quote] Saying a map is better than the cage is like saying someone is more athletic than Stephing Hawking. It's nothing to be proud of. I'll still DL your map, just sayin...

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Severan I still have yet to see anyone name a map that everyone can agree is a great map with few (if any at all) problems.[/quote] Prisoner, Midship, Damnation, Bever Creek happy?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] driedroasted For the record I had another classic match on Cage yesterday winning 50-49 with a last gasp sniper spree. I guess I'm just brilliant.[/quote] That almost proves how bad the Cage is. Close games should ONLY happen between two teams that are essentially equal. Of course, if you keep having these "classics games," it's probably because the map provokes little to no skill gap, and thus, little to no score gap.

Eh. Cage is fun. much better than Lockout from H2 IMO. Great guide. Much simpler than that one kid's 30 Lesson guide. Much better, too.

This was a wonderful tutorial. It really helped me out. Before this, I would just sit down in front of the television and played with the forge. I would start out knowing exactly what I'd do, then the spotlight hits and I lose it all. I barely remember anything I do the next day and end up deleting the map. I always think about making a regular 4v4 slayer-based map. Then I come back thinking about making a CTF-specific map. I use parts that end up useless to the overall outcome of the map. This post may well be the most useful one I've read since I joined. Thank you, Bungie. Sincerely, Alpacino C.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SYN Burning Sky [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Severan I still have yet to see anyone name a map that everyone can agree is a great map with few (if any at all) problems.[/quote] Prisoner, Midship, Damnation, Bever Creek happy?[/quote] Those four maps have two votes apiece at the moment... though I can tell you that I know a few people that absolutely =despise= prisoner.

Good tutorial, but the map could have been better. Team Snipers is a nightmare on it.

hi

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SYN Burning Sky [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] driedroasted For the record I had another classic match on Cage yesterday winning 50-49 with a last gasp sniper spree. I guess I'm just brilliant.[/quote] That almost proves how bad the Cage is. Close games should ONLY happen between two teams that are essentially equal. Of course, if you keep having these "classics games," it's probably because the map provokes little to no skill gap, and thus, little to no score gap.[/quote] Oh this proves it does it? But on the other hand I'm told it proves nothing! You gotta love nitpicking gamers :) Heard of Trueskill by the way?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] driedroasted [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SYN Burning Sky [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] driedroasted For the record I had another classic match on Cage yesterday winning 50-49 with a last gasp sniper spree. I guess I'm just brilliant.[/quote] That almost proves how bad the Cage is. Close games should ONLY happen between two teams that are essentially equal. Of course, if you keep having these "classics games," it's probably because the map provokes little to no skill gap, and thus, little to no score gap.[/quote] Oh this proves it does it? But on the other hand I'm told it proves nothing! You gotta love nitpicking gamers :) Heard of Trueskill by the way?[/quote] It doesn't prove anything, I just wanted to discredit the whole, "it's a good map because I have a bunch of close games" argument

some times it is a good map. I got like 6 double kills in one match on it one day. The key is to playing with some people that don't camp. All luck I guess.

cage really sucks i h8 asylum aswell (no offense) [Edited on 11.13.2010 6:18 AM PST]