[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ll Hello Moto ll The cage = possibly 1 of the worst maps i've ever played on[/quote]True, but design specs can still be made using The cage as an example. All Carney was trying to do was give you helpful tips on building a map. This was how he used those tips to help him build The Cage, as well as other prior installments, such as Lockout.

Thank you for the info. Could you please provide some suggestions for getting a map some recognition? I feel that I have a very good, playable, and most importantly fun map, but I want to test it heavily before the final goes into the forgetacular contest. I have posted it on forgehub, but any suggestions would be great. Also anyone reading this, if you want to get down on some epic large scale CTF, download Schism and add me, Temujin451.

Really interesting to see how simple the original sketches were. Could you do one on spawns please?

All this trash talk 'bout The Cage. Yeah, it's got two long walkways covered by a single tower. This, my friends, is why you A) have grenades and B) have multiple areas outside those hallways to fight in. you also have the covered fire positions from which you can easily countersnipe using the comparatively large number of DMRs and Needle Rifles all over the map. There are also the heavy weaponsn to consider, but any sniper worth his salt will have probably secured those before moving into the sniper tower. If you don't like the map, you need to learn new tactics. Myself, I hated Pinnacle until I started varying my tactics. Improvise, adapt, overcome.

The Cage is amazing. Much better than Lockout. Your craft keeps getting better Chris. I hope The Cage gets remade for all new Halo games.

The cage is actually a pretty pathetic map, so I do not know its used as an example. Atom is much better and a lot more fun to play on, rather than that camping map.

i like what you sade [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] austinbath These are great tips for making cool maps, but where does it say how to make a stupid vertical indoor map where the point of the game is to camp at the top and wait for people to try to climb up and get killed?[/quote]

I liked halo 3 maps a lot more then Reach. I miss maps like Gaurdian, The Pit, Valhalla and more. I find the only map I really love in Reach is Powerhouse

The Cage is by far the worst map I've ever seen Bungie create. It makes Backwash from Halo 2 look like The Pit.

The cage is awesome, how can you hate that map? Spire is alot more worse than the cage because you always have to search enemies no matter with how many players it is. I agree it's cool for invasion but you know that's it. I'd much rather have them barricade the part with the spire and let us battle in the field behind it, that would be more actionpacked and alot more fun (just put 2 bases in the field)

Well after reading the entire article, I can say I learned a lot about Forging. It was really interesting to tie in The Cage as a case study. And your sketches were awesome, and they really correlated to the final product! The Cage is an awesome map btw, good work. The only reason people hate it is because they get trapped at the bottom and don't have the talent/teamwork to make a push to top mid.

The Cage is not one of Carney's greatest hits. Bring back that Halo 2 form. Or better yet, remake the Halo 2 maps. Or even better, see that "Classic playlist" thread. I bet The Cage would be fun if we could physically jump across certain areas, like Lockout in Halo 2 for example.

Bring back all the classic Halo 2 Maps, and 3 maps in a classic map back Bungie that is what we want. We don't want more of these awful vertical camping maps, and odd redesigns of great maps. We want the old maps they way they were don't change them you don't need to improve perfection.

The people who like The Cage obviously aren't facing amazing players that know what they're doing. Not trying to sound ignorant, but it's mostly the truth. I'm not saying I don't like the map. I just don't like how the players can use and exploit the map.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Zomechin The people who like The Cage obviously aren't facing amazing players that know what they're doing. Not trying to sound ignorant, but it's mostly the truth. I'm not saying I don't like the map. I just don't like how the players can use and exploit the map.[/quote] Exactly.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Zomechin The people who like The Cage obviously aren't facing amazing players that know what they're doing. Not trying to sound ignorant, but it's mostly the truth. I'm not saying I don't like the map. I just don't like how the players can use and exploit the map.[/quote] Yea, the map is fun when just messing around and people just run everywhere not really caring where they go- but since i play in the higher tier people know how to spawn trap and its boring whether your on the winning or losing side aka fun for messing around but not a good competitive map _____________________________________________________________ Also urk used my screenshot [url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=7857726&player=Apollo%20Creed%2001]Wander[/url] for the backdrop in this article if anyone's curious about it... and on the off chance urk reads this just wanna say Thanks- i appreciate it!!

Is there an article somewhere I can read on ''how to ruin previous game remakes by adding too much pointless map detail and removing key jumps and routes''? Also, using The Cage as an example really hinders your article. It's a nice write up... but the entire time you're thinking ''wait... is he still talking about The Cage? That map is awful... this much design went into it? Really?''

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Marty the Elder The Cage is my favorite map of all time!! I love the Cage.[/quote] Marty?! It's a shame you don't post here more often (compared to the rest of bungie), a bunch of people would like to hear your thoughts. Anyways, I agree that the Cage is a good map, but it's not one of my favorites. PS: Tip of the Spear was a amazing piece, i'm gonna miss your music.

The Cage is not a good map! We want a real lockout remake!

Wow I didnt know it was that intricate to make maps in reach

halo is there any way to git un band from reach

The Cage has the [b]worst[/b] spawns, and 2 too many power weapons, and grenades are OP due to the narrow corridors. Nice try Bungie, but seriously, I consider the Cage to be my least favorite map. Also for infection, people just go on top of the middle building and camp there, and one team can spawn near shotgun while another team can spawn right above them on the back left tower. In conclusion, I would give you a list of about 30 things of why the cage should be removed. P.S. Did I mention the cage sucks?

Very insightful, I need to spend more time in Forge now!

The cage is =not= a bad map. Period. The people who hate it are the ones that can't figure out how to beat the campers. Learn that, and the map will be less irritating. Also, you'll find that you complain less. Go into Forge. Study the map. Look for weaknesses. Look for angles for grenade throws. Stop whining. If you want a remake done, read the article. When you've finished that, go into Forge and build it. There are at least 50 threads dedicated to map remakes if you want to just download one and not go through the trouble of building it. Although, if you are going to just go download instead of build, you pretty much missed the point of the article in the first place.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Severan The cage is =not= a bad map. Period. The people who hate it are the ones that can't figure out how to beat the campers. Learn that, and the map will be less irritating. Also, you'll find that you complain less. Go into Forge. Study the map. Look for weaknesses. Look for angles for grenade throws. Stop whining. If you want a remake done, read the article. When you've finished that, go into Forge and build it. There are at least 50 threads dedicated to map remakes if you want to just download one and not go through the trouble of building it. Although, if you are going to just go download instead of build, you pretty much missed the point of the article in the first place.[/quote] Why do people automatically assume that just because someone doesn't like something, it's because they're not good at it? It's just not a good map. In any sense. You can disect and figure it out all you want on your own, it doesn't change the fact that it just doesn't play well (except maybe in Snipers... for some reason it's not horrible then).

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] JoeSki73 Suck it haters! The Cage is a good map and I appreciate Carney taking the time to drop some knowledge on us fools. Thanks man![/quote] If by suck it, you mean the rest of us are meant to suffer through cage and atom then yes we are all 'sucking' it. It is also a shame that Atom was recognized, because you're part of a community that has close ties to Bungie not because atom was actually good, over other forge created maps that show intelligent design and flow, especially when you consider where players respawn. Seriously Joe, did you not watch films of gameplay and see the amazing predictability of your respawn points? I don't like to hate on people, but it's a pain to play competitively on maps that aren't geared towards competitive play. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Severan All this trash talk 'bout The Cage. Yeah, it's got two long walkways covered by a single tower. This, my friends, is why you A) have grenades and B) have multiple areas outside those hallways to fight in. you also have the covered fire positions from which you can easily countersnipe using the comparatively large number of DMRs and Needle Rifles all over the map. There are also the heavy weaponsn to consider, but any sniper worth his salt will have probably secured those before moving into the sniper tower. If you don't like the map, you need to learn new tactics. Myself, I hated Pinnacle until I started varying my tactics. Improvise, adapt, overcome.[/quote] Putting the blame on the player instead of poor design is pretty stupid. The sniper tower is a bad position to be in, whether you have the lead or not. From the tower there are only two ways out, one towards healthpack, which has a bridge taking you to bottom mid, which is a worse position to be in than being holed up in the sniper tower, so why on earth would you leave, when you're going to be forced down there anyways. The other way out is through the mancannon, which to get there is almost certain death. Mancannoning will lead to death. Now for the other team to attack you would require them giving up top control to come after you, which would in turn mean that, if they killed you, you're going to respawn top healthpack. But you're most likely not going to kill anyone because one team is dispersed along one long LOS which mean they all have each others back's. But of course, you have grenades to rain down on people that are crouching behind cover, so getting a kill is lucky at best. No, there are not multiple pathways, that's the problem in the first place. Nitwit. Pinnacle is good, for blue team spawn. Srsly please move rockets to the middle of the dish or add OS back. It's an incredibly one-sided slayer map, which was designed for one sided objective play. The only real tactic to the cage is gain top control so you can force a team to spawn at sniper tower or bottom mid.