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11/3/2010 11:36:08 PM
163
Carney's Crash Course: Map Design 101
Get your learn on.
[url=/news/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=29601] click for full story [/url]
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I feel that, since I read this, I will now try and implement some of these tips into my own creations, only to have them turn out to be twice as bad as they usually are. :P
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Thanks Carney! Appreciated.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BurkusCat I'm not going to follow anything that I have just read since the Cage is an example. The other maps are not good but the Cage is just poor design as well as forging.[/quote] Every bit of what Carney said about map design is true except using the cage as an example. Bad cage is bad, because he erred on one major factor of any competitive map and that is you never want to have one long corridor. The Cage has two, which both connect at one point, the sniper tower. So there you have it, why the cage sucks for competitive play. It creates an almost unbeatable set-up for the team in the lead and a terrible assaulting position for the team that's losing. EDIT: I really feel that maps in Reach have not been built for the competitive gamer. They've been built for the casual gamer which is weird because some of the most memorable maps that have been loved by all cliques of gamers have been competitive maps. You know the classcis, like warlock, tombstone, desolation, the pit, guardian, lockout, construct, etc.. The cage would never in a million years be considered a classic. DOUBLE EDIT: So yea, -blam!- casual gamers. Sure they give you most of your business, but if you make the competitive gamers happy you're gonna make the casual gamer happy as well. [Edited on 11.03.2010 7:53 PM PDT]
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The Cage is an awful map. [Edited on 11.03.2010 8:07 PM PDT]
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I could not agree more with what this guy said. Here are some more reasons why the cage should be taking out of map rotation. First this map is to open for how small it is (should have taken notes from guardian and lockout) it feels like I'm playing on the elbow of lockout all the time and no one wants to play on the elbow of any map. Elbows are used to get around the map not to fight on. Second all a team needs to do is hold top, middle and small tower and that will spawn people right in front of small tower or down by rockets, one kinda safe place to spawn(not good). Third once you have top and middle there is no need to leave those areas, unless you are like me and like to hunt down people instead of waiting for the kill(camping). I really hope they take this map out of snipers and any time you can't us all of the abilities.
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In your opinion. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A 3 Legged Goat The Cage is an awful map. [/quote]
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the cage is a crack baby between gaurdian and lockout/blackout [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ang3l Awesome read..... but The Cage is a terrible map.[/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ang3l Awesome read..... but The Cage is a terrible map.[/quote]
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Wow! Thanks a lot, Carney! Great article!
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If you guys at Bungie really want to get the community involved with custom maps and matchmaking, make grabbag playlist (like from the Beta) that consists of maps entirely from the community. Choses 10 to 20 maps to be in every week (rotate them out) and have a feedback section on B.net where people can support individual maps for full time matchmaking. Some people might find it irritating to have a large number of custom maps in normal matchmaking rotation, however. So if you eventually do have a significant number of custom maps in rotation, you could just create a weekly rotation scedual of 5-10 maps per week. ...and I'm going off on a tangent again.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] relliK42 In your opinion. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A 3 Legged Goat The Cage is an awful map. [/quote][/quote] Well of course it is. I'm the one who posted it, after all.
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I see how you guys mean the simplicity and all that for slayer maps, but how about infection maps.. I don't see anything about infection on boneyard, so if I'm doing an infection map how would I take this information and use it for my map? [Edited on 11.03.2010 9:15 PM PDT]
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Thanks for the insight. I appreciate it :)
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I guess this doesn't matter that much to me as I'm in Australia :( Good tutorial anyway :)
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All that work went into making a terrible map??? Wow. Just wow...
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Same here, I'm having problems with playing in the forge because of those challenges which earn you lots of credits. Don't you just love to hate rivalry between a group of friends...
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Predictably the whiners turn up. Really if you know map design that well you should be turning out amazing forge maps. So I look forward to seeing those links. Great article by the way and I hope more is forthcoming. One point about designing flow which I've noticed is that the jetpack destroys this. When I'm dabbling in forge I notice you really can't design around that so you have to remove jetpacks from your gametype. As for The (excellent) Cage there's a reason why it feels constricted. It's called The Cage after all. And you don't have to fight on the "elbows". But I do and have quite a bit of success. Think Armour Lock, think sprint. And combine with teamwork. The thing is there is undoubtedly some combination of gametype and map that won't work well. With armour abilities the possible ways a map is viewed and traversed is increased enormously. If Lockout debuted in Reach would it be viewed quite as favourably as it is now? I actually doubt it as the possible range of experiences would diverge greatly. Put it like this. I like Armour Lock. But sometimes when I see it used on a certain map and gametype it does annoy me. So if anyone here actually does come up with a good map make sure it works great with one or two gametypes. If you can manage more than that you're probably very gifted indeed.
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Great article. I felt recently that jumping into Forge too soon meant ideas weren't really coming together the way I'd hoped. Always best to conceptualise before making something concrete. I've made one forge map that I am particularly proud of and another that could also be great.
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So basically Carney explains how he came about creating quite possibly the WORST and most UNBALANCED map in Halo history? ... i lul'd. [quote][b]EDIT[/b][/quote] I came into this thread for the sole purpose of mentioning what I just did above and judging by other responses, I see some others had the same mentality lmfao. Good day. PS - The Cage is seriously a terrible map. Interesting though how you spent so much time on it. [Edited on 11.04.2010 3:14 AM PDT]
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I'm really going to use this and make a map now. I just haven't had the time to make one yet but I think I'll try harder now. Thanks for sharing!
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Whom ever made the maps Headlong, Hang em high, Waterworks, TERMINAL pretty much anything Pre Halo 3, need to be the ones making the maps. Not the guy who built Lockout and Cage which if you look closely are pretty similar... No disrespect intended.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] eselchen The Cage is not a good map :([/quote]
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the best maps to make are the basic maps. I enjoy skeliton maps because you can create anything you want out of them. same consept for the canveses on halo3
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Suck it haters! The Cage is a good map and I appreciate Carney taking the time to drop some knowledge on us fools. Thanks man!
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Hmm... Interesting.
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I like waterworks, always have.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ll Hello Moto ll The cage = possibly 1 of the worst maps i've ever played on[/quote]True, but design specs can still be made using The cage as an example. All Carney was trying to do was give you helpful tips on building a map. This was how he used those tips to help him build The Cage, as well as other prior installments, such as Lockout.
