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11/3/2010 11:36:08 PM
163
Carney's Crash Course: Map Design 101
Get your learn on.
[url=/news/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=29601] click for full story [/url]
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I love you CC
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Good read. Lockout was an amazing map. The Cage has potential, but I'm sorry- that map sucks. )=
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I'm sorry, but Cage wasn't the best... uh, design to tut someone on. :/ Aside from the Cage, thanks for the tips.
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who designed the maps for halo 2?
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Too bad the Cage is one of the worst maps in ANY multiplayer shooter I have played. Lockout however is one of the best.
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Even though I find the Cage to be unbalanced and not fun to play on, I really appreciate the article and seeing some of the thought processes that take you there. It'll at least give me some different directions to look at the initial design steps. :)
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Bungie, I suggest reading GodlyPerfection's Forge Lessons, which is one of the top forum topics in the Reach forum. They are much more detailed, and he, unlike Carney, can still make balanced maps. [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=48657907]Over 30 lessons![/url] [Edited on 11.03.2010 5:24 PM PDT]
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The Cage is far from a terrible map, and as Carney designed Lockout I love him forever. In fact, funnily enough though many people dislike it, it's one of my favourite maps in Reach (JUST NOT FOR INFECTION!) An informative and interesting read. I always wondered how professional map makers went about doing their jobs, and it is, surprise, surprise far more professional than I go about my forging.
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Nice tips. I may have to try some of them out next time I go to Forge.
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Simplicity. Simplicity has its place, for sure. But as Carney so accurately described for me, I believe Halo Reach's maps are a little too simple. Short of Ivory tower and maybe Ascension or the cage, there's not a map in Halo Reach that can't be understood within the first playthrough. Asymmetry, a very important part of a balanced map selection, is almost completely absent from Halo: Reach. And the Cage may be a decent map, but it is [b]not[/b] the new Lockout.
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Sorry but if I want to learn how to make a proper map I'll go to MLG or the community you guys clearly for the most part have no idea what you're doing. Examples? Just check out The Cage and Asylum. ;D
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I wish he gave us his design process for Prisoner. That is a good map, The Cage is the worst Reach map in my opinion. There is no flow to it what so ever.
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Why can't Bungie accept that Asylum and The Cage suck?
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You make it sound like it's a fact. I myself like The Cage and Asylum. It's a matter of opinion. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cOnViCtEdGaMeRx Why can't Bungie accept that Asylum and The Cage suck?[/quote]
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The Cage is my favorite map of all time!! I love the Cage.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] LinkLegend0 I'm sorry but The Cage sucks...[/quote] The Cage is possibly the worst Halo map ever created... To say it sucks is an understatement, I have played many different gametypes on it and not a SINGLE ONE was any fun...
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cOnViCtEdGaMeRx Why can't Bungie accept that Asylum and The Cage suck?[/quote] They're both better than Sword Base. [Edited on 11.03.2010 6:45 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Marty the Elder The Cage is my favorite map of all time!! I love the Cage.[/quote] This pretty much sums it all up right here. This has got to be a joke.
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I'm not a big fan of the Cage but still this info was very good. I think using Asylum would have been better
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Honestly, no one should be listening to a thing Godly_Perfection (aka AZN FTW). Anything he says is either common sense, or utterly ridiculous biased opinions of his own. Him, as well as other associates, are the main cause for Forge Hub's terrible reputation for design processes back in the day. As for this article, all of what Carney says is 100% true. This article is a definite necessity for any new forger's or even those who have never thought to in depth about design processes. While this may not apply to The Cage (which is unfortunately a much lower grade of map compared to its predecessors), it is most certainly true to map design in a general sense. The Cage is however a situation where testing and personal preference will show through. It's definitely a great idea to have many players from many communities and backgrounds play your map as to gather opinions from the most casual to hardcore players. [Edited on 11.03.2010 6:53 PM PDT]
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Really, really, great read. Though I have some experience in Forge and Map Design from both Halo 3 and Reach, this was not only an excellent refresher on some of the most essential pieces of planning and creation, but it also brought up a couple points that I hadn't thought about before. The section where you outlined the walls in red that divided The Cage was very interesting, because now that I think about it, without those walls The Cage would be a completely different map. In addition, I realize that I'd also never really thought about those one-way routes, like dropdowns and mancannons that add predictable movement to a map. Again, this was a great read, and an very good resource that I'll definitely have to refer back to occasionally. Since this article applies to most all maps and gametypes, I'm hoping that you'd be willing to write another one on more specific games, perhaps Invasion or Big Team. I mention Invasion particularly because it's something that a TON of people are interested in and trying to build maps for, yet it's still sort of an unknown beast. It's a new gametype to the Halo franchise, and a lot of people (including myself) still don't really know how to build a balanced map for it. What's fair, what's not, depending on the objective (Flag, Bomb, Territories)? What about spawn locations (including Battle Bros)? So yeah, hopefully you're feeling up to doing another article like this somewhere down the road. Thanks a bunch for this one though. :) P.S. Yes I'm aware that there was already an "Invasion + Forge!" article, but that was about how to make the gametype and map actually function together, not how to make a [u]good[/u] map. [Edited on 11.03.2010 7:06 PM PDT]
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I really don't get the rage against The Cage, it's one of my favourite 4 v 4 maps in Reach, especially for objective games.
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To all the people who are saying, "x map sucks": Seeing as this is a [i]discussion[/i] on the topic of map design if you actually know what you are talking about you could perhaps include some specific design related reasons for your views. Note: this applies to all discussions, of any kind, on any subject.
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Can we get a "Forge" Weekly Challenge plz?
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I didn't like Lockout... There, some people don't like the Cage I didn't like Lockout. Not to say Lockout is a [i]bad[/i] map I just didn't like it. Likewise if you guys don't like the Cage, fine, but don't just say "It sucks" or "It's the worst MM map EVAAAA!!" It's just a matter of opinion, it's also nice to provide reasons, proof etc. as to why you think it's so bad. If you're just like "THIS MAP SUCKZ!" you just look like a whiny -blam!- who got owned in a game cus you suck. But if you say "I dislike X map because over the course of many a game I noticed a tendency for players to fight for this positon over all others and when they control this position it tends to give an unfair advantage." You sound more reasonable. This has been Flyawayautumn, local pimp, with tips and tricks to not looking like a noob on the forums.
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I feel that, since I read this, I will now try and implement some of these tips into my own creations, only to have them turn out to be twice as bad as they usually are. :P
