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Edited by KyleTrevor:
6/25/2021 2:15:41 PM
27
Regarding Top-tree-dawnblade and Why Movement Nerfs Are a Mistake
While it is true the subclass is really strong in pvp, nerfing its movement (e.g. icarus dash) would be the wrong decision for a number of reasons. It would not only detract from the fast-paced gameplay many consider to be the best aspect of Destiny, it would also break the subclass`s core gameplay style. Closing gaps fast might be considered overpowered in Crucible, but there are ways to play around it with defensive abilities, hunter dodges, and other options like baiting and punishing approaches. There are more reasonable ways to balance it, such as diminished tracking on celestial fire which is very forgiving, but increasing icarus dash cooldown (be it in total or between dashes) or nerfing its general movement capabilities would not be the right call. The decision is also partially based on skewed data. It`s high usage in crucible is boosted by it being a good counter to cheaters due to its ability to close gaps fast while its high mobility also makes it a good stasis challenger.
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I`m not trying to start a subclass flame war. I agree the Behemoth punch lunge was hit too hard. Revenants were luckier in having more nerfs reversed. The point I`m trying to make is that `this subclass is this way so this other one should be as well` is not a valid argument for balancing decisions. Bungie has been dropping a lot of nerfs recently. I`m honestly trying to wrap my mind around their ideas and I can`t. Why not keep the current movement options untouched and add some to the other subclasses. This might be a bad example but let me try to explain: imagine a new mechanic was added to devour warlocks that grants them a small amount of increased mobility alongside the health regeneration when eating a grenade. This is what I`m trying to say, add more gameplay and movement options to lower tier subclasses instead of cutting everything that is not only fun, but also part of Destiny`s high-speed core. D2 is an FPS that feels like a fighting game and that`s good. Don`t turn it into a slow tactical shooter
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They won’t be happy till locks are completely useless in pvp. TTDB is the only reason I even bother playing PvP on my lock.
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35 RepliesAgreed. Its the wrong approach. The actual solution is very simple. Reduce the primary weapon TTK from 0.85 secs down to 0.6 (which was the original TTK for vanilla D1. 1. No, it won't make the game in to CoD. CoD TTKs are down near the 0.25 sec range. 2. It would give the game a primary meta, because it will FINALLY allow primary weapon users to stand their ground and fight of shotgun rushers and other OVER-aggressive use of OHK weapons. 3. It would reduce the need for team shooting. Because it would allow well-executed flanks to take out opponents before they could run away to safety or have a team mate rotate over and intervene. Opening up the game.....letting it **breathe**....and allowing for a wider variety of play styles. So the game doesn't get so stale so quickly.
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Dawnblade shouldn’t be nerfed at all. It’s another appeasement nerf. I play Hunter the most but all classes generally (and not much PvP) and Warlocks seem to me the class that get’s the squeeze the most whenever there’s any suggestion of it having some kind of advantage. The biggest problem with PvP isn’t movement it’s the fact, like D1, that when the average lag is greater than the prevalent ttk then people (including me) have a problem rationalising the outcomes. The comp playlist is the only PvP playlist where there’s less evidence of this and all this chat about skill etc. becomes irrelevant. I have no problem playing (and getting my arse kicked by) better players but when either lag, cheats, or some Bungie win/loss game manipulation comes into play because I play solo; that’s a pass from me.
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Edited by Cho: 6/26/2021 8:30:57 AMThis Fast is fun. We should be embracing movement tech and abilities. Don’t touch [b]icarus[/b], revert the behemoth movement nerfs etc and look at some way to introduce faster movement to hunters. The only thing I could say needs tuning on dawn is the melee. Besides that it’s fine. The more we slow down the game, the worse it gets. Oh and speedrunning will die when icarus gets nerfed so that’s fun
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Edited by KyleTrevor: 6/27/2021 11:23:08 PMThe sandbox team is insisting on nerfing higher tier (in the PVP sense) subclasses while keeping the lower ones untouched. Buffing other light subclasses, despite not being a definitive solution, would be a good decision and a great start. A light subclass overhaul, which I hope is coming with Witch Queen, is highly necessary. Basing sandbox balancing decisions purely on usage is not a great method, this places nerfs on whatever the most used subclass is at the moment. Also, people seem to think every elimination/trias/survival match is a 3 v 3 among six TTDB which is just not true. Revenants, TTDB, and Behemoths dominate PVP right now and a situation where Crucible is focused on a couple subclasses is fine to some extent. It is undesirable and also impossible to make every or even most subclasses viable in PVP.
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13 RepliesRiiiiight. Meanwhile all warlocks...nerf hunter movement...it is too much. And then hunter movement abilities got nerfed 30+ times. But nooooo...when its warlocks turn we shouldnt do that for some reason. The irony.
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1 ReplyLmao ur talking to a bunch of patrol framers, Jim's and Dad gamers who can't aim so anyone moving slightly too fast is way to broken.
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1 ReplyEdited by Infamous067: 6/25/2021 8:18:27 PMThe only reason I enjoy top tree dawnblade is because its the perfect counter to grenade launchers and the perfect counter to stasis. The air dodge is nice but honestly top tree dawn would still be a viable choice even without icarus dash just because of its ability to fire from the air and having no in air accuracy penalties. Icarus dash could be completely removed from the game and I would still play the subclass because of its ability to dodge a crap ton of BS and being able to snipe from certain angles on elimination type modes. Icarus dash is honestly a bit too much for me, the class can do just fine without it. If players hate it so much then bungie can make an exotic that grants warlocks icarus dash, (basically twilight garrison but on warlocks). I actually like the dive that bottom tree dawn does while granting health on the way down over icarus dash. A class thats designed to be in the air and being able to instantly dive down towards the ground is more balanced to me than how top tree dawn currently is with icarus dash.
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3 RepliesGonna laugh when they nerf it. Always seemed like a high skill ceiling thing and something I WANTED to put time into, but I knew at some point this day would come. The day your effort is pissed on by Bungie. They're gonna nerf it. Don't waste tour energy on it any further. Accept it and move on.
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Icarus dash is probably gonna get the behemoth treatment where you can only do one dash at a time, but you can do it more frequently in exchange. This way it has lower gap closing capabilities, while still offering a tremendous amount of horizontal movement on a relatively short cooldown.
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1 ReplyEdited by Sweet Lew 88: 6/25/2021 9:22:39 PMIt's strong against cheaters isn't a good defense. Lol. Means it's too strong against the non cheaters. If you know game development so well, just make your own destiny killer and be done with it. I'd love to play it....
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1 ReplyIt’s really in comp you see top tree beasts...and apparently 90% of the crucible population plays comp. well guess what. In sweaty modes prepare to play sweaty. And against players better then you.
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The same could’ve been said for stasis Titan…
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You know what feels GREAT? Having to run the length of a Superbowl commercial to be “allowed” to slide to break your crystals in PVE!!! Man, if you want to talk about CRISSSSSPY GAMEPLAY
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No, no crazy talk, that things need a nerf.
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Edited by A_mo: 6/26/2021 5:20:53 AMMovement abilities become a problem when they start to work like they are exploiting the internet. Cryoclasm or however you spell it had the same problem and depending on how its tuned the rolling hunter dodge can sometimes be similar. I've personally never had a problem with it in 6v6 but in the 3v3s its one of those things where people are basically disappearing off the internet for a split second.
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Edited by Martiis: 6/25/2021 3:53:22 PMWell since titans have to straight line for 1.25 seconds now before they can use their "movement" abilities; it is only fair that warlocks have to be in the air for 1.25 seconds before they can use theirs.
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Nerf it just like they did behemoth
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I think Dash should get a similar treatment as Behemoth slide got AND nerf the F out of the melee. Keep the cheeky ability recovery, but the "get out of jail free" dodge and unlimited range AOE seeking burn melee need to get hit in significant ways.
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No, stompee hunters are the Traveler’s special little children and are the only ones allowed to have insane movement.
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F top tree. They destroyed bottom tree to make us use top. They took the movement from Titan exotics (Empyrean bellicose and Twilight garrison). Radar removed height notation. The melee is an absolute joke. Personally can't wait to see it get Nova warp treatment, purely out of spite.
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After the nerf I’m not taking off shadebinder or well
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It needs to be adjusted due too it being too strong for movement.
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Built in twilight garrison
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Wants nerfing more lol
