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Edited by kellygreen45:
5/26/2020 3:09:11 PM
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Look at what happened this season with the Seraph Tower. The second, harder version. Because that fight was basically a raid encounter in the public space.
THAT is what you'd be up against if Raids had random matchmaking. People showing up lookign to get carried. People showing up with language barriers. People showing up with no headphones and tall and no ability to communicate.
Now imagine trying to do the final boss fight in Garden of Salvation with six people....with no headphones....or with no common language to speak to each other in.
Its a set-up for failure.
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That’s the most stupidest thing I have ever heard recently. Can you tell us in what ways seraph towers resemble a raid? You don’t need communication for towers you just need people. It wouldn’t matter if you were 9 people in a raid if none of them knew the encounters. But those same 9 people can easily finish seraph tower.
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1. Sorry you feel that way. 2. Wrath of the Machine. Voksis Phase 1. The team has to defend three plates from serial attacks while they charge them up. Once they reach maximum charge they spit out SIVA charges that you then throw at Voksis to do damage. All the basic mechanics and need for team coordination that you see in Seraph Towers (ver 2.0) are there in this opening raid fight. You only 'need people" if you've got NINE people, and can stand on all the plates at the same time. Which is why people were GAMING the instancing in order to make sure they had enough bodies to reduce the level of coordination and communication necessary to complete thefight. Oh...and try completing Seraph Towers if no one knows what to do with the energy charges. Been there done that. Guarenteed failure. 3. The first version that Bungie dropped of Seraph Towers was simply a very complicated public event. It was annoying....but doable. But in the second version, the need to defend multiple towers...the fact that you seldom have 9 people to run it....and the very minimal margine for error basically turned this public event into a raid level fight. In fact there are a number of raid encounters that are EASIER than this "public event".
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You cannot be f-in serious with your explanation. Seraph was a raid ? OMG.. The only reason we failed at the towers is because there was NO matchmaking. Unless you got a premade FT of at least 6 people there was no chance of doing it after they made it harder. Without premades you were lucky if you got 3 people in the same instance. That is what wrecked it.
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Opening encounter in Wrat ph required 0 communication, I can agree on its like a public event sure but that encounter is actually even easier than seraph towers with 0 communication. First of all you cannot fail that encounter, if you lose battery you can just recharge it again and again. Secondly there was no timer that would cause a fail in there and lastly it wasn’t in a restricted zone, so you could just die and get up by yourself like it’s a public area. So yea resembles to a public event sure but it’s even easier than seraph towers and require no communication. All you needed to do was run through charges dunk it and kill the big shanks then boss dps.
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Your wasting your time on KG. He's a simple D2 strike player & nothing more. I imagine he got carried a fair bit in D1 raids 😉
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Edited by kellygreen45: 5/27/2020 6:13:50 PM[quote]Opening encounter in Wrat ph required 0 communication,[/quote] ...and here comes the [i]"No True Scotsman fallacy". [/i] The sound of the goalposts getting up and moving....... [i]...But Voksis, pt. 1 wasn't a **real** raid fight......[/i]
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Spot on Kelly. It just wouldnt work, anyone who has raided a few times can see this. Way to many things to go right to even get going. Bungie won't spend the time doing it as it's just not worth the effort. Lfg is completely functional and works for tonnes of people, so MM just ain't worth it.
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And the current set up is better how? Giving people a chance is better then none at all. Especially with checkpoints. Take away the weekly resets and wow...people could do a slow grind for first time completions, get a clear or two under their belt and build raid friends. Considering how few raid...you’d think you’d want more to do it? Not less? Maybe think about what others want??? It’s not your game session that could have those issues...remember?
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[quote]And the current set up is better how? [/quote] You don't waste limited development time and resources on a game feature that will see little-to-no use. Guided Games was still in "beta" last time I checked. What you're proposing would fail for the same reason that Guided Games failed. The experienced players you would need to populate that playlist in order to give it a chance to succeed have NO incentive whatsoever to go in there. So you'll get a parade of people who are either inexperienced or "problem" team mates. ...and once people see that being able to clear content under those conditions are close to impossible, they're just going to stop wasting time going in there.
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Making it open matchmaking, based on checkpoints, isn’t exactly a daunting task. Saying it won’t be used it pure speculation, it’s been asked for for years. As for wasted dev time, they had how much time for trials and it still came out half baked?
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Edited by Crystilonus2011: 5/26/2020 7:52:59 PMCorrect, it’s been asked for for years and still isn’t in the game. Because it won’t work and isn’t worth the development time for such low engagement. Current system gives you as the player control. You set the parameters for your fireteam and you control who you add.
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So you’re blaming a lack of matchmaking for a lack of engagement to justify a lack of matchmaking. Based on nothing but pure assumption of what will and won’t work and how many will and won’t use it. Despite people wanting it...for years... That’s a reasonable.
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No, I base it off of doing every single piece of endgame content and understanding the level of skill that is necessary to do half of these activities. In addition, I’ve been through so many bad groups (especially when garden first came out) and been a Sherpa for more than my fair share of raids and nightfalls. No matter what you think, adding matchmaking to these activities would not work. Sure it will increase engagement, and in that regard it will “work”, but it will also increase frustration due to the number of bad players expecting a carry bringing down the decent players trying to find a team. That being said, it isn’t worth the development time and also is not in the identity of endgame content in this game.
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[i]Cricket noises intensify[/i]
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Yep. And that was for something most pvp players wanted.
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And how many pve players ask for more mm in pve?? So it’s not wasted time when a chunk of players wants it.
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[quote]And how many pve players ask for more mm in pve??[/quote] In Nightfalls....a lot. In raids? Practically no one. Most experienced raiders know its a recipie for disaster.
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No one? Not what I’ve seen, it’s been asked for since D1. I saw several people bringing it up today alone. I don’t see anyone asking for more nf mm since it’s already there...and has been there for some time?? I’m curious how being an “experienced raider” gives you any insight to how a whole group of randos will operate in a raid. Especially a checkpoint based system, you only need to get through one section at a time. Considering they aren’t those kinds of players. I think this is where that elitism comes in. The same elitism that has been the [i]major factor in LFG not working for the casual players for years[/i]. So advocating for an known broken system that works for the top percent... If a “experienced raider” says so then it may as be written on the mountain. I suppose us lowly casuals should just defer.
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It gives me insight because I got to see what a clusterphuck random matchmaking was in The Division for incursions. And we all saw what happened with Seraph Tower. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Arrogance is thinking what happened to other people’s games won’t happen to yours.
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Edited by MC 077 Lasombra: 5/27/2020 12:26:28 AMSo what if it’s a mess? You have players engaging in content they wouldn’t of otherwise. Not to mention random people would end up linking up with others who are legit trying, forming fireteams on their own. Expanding friends and clan lists. Going in needing fewer randoms. You’re telling me there is no positives? For real? Lol It’s [i]optional[/i], so it has zero negative impact to the raiding community. I mean, besides expanding the pool of raid players...but who wants that? I don’t see why the veteran raiders not liking a system means the majority of others can’t use it. Especially when [i]they[/i] want it? I should remind you of your words about not being Center of the universe? Raiders aren’t it either. You don’t own the raids, us mere mortals don’t need to meet your standards to try. Arrogance indeed. It might be arrogant if they were the same. The raids are [i]very different[/i] in design correct? So are the games themselves. Didn’t you point out earlier how different Division 2 is from Destiny? I know the raid gameplay is [i]very[/i] different. Having played both games raids myself. Well since raiding MM in Destiny hasn’t ever been done, it isn’t insanity to try. I don’t think you used the phrase properly, seems like you twisted it fyi
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Try looking past your own wants to what’s good for the game. Setting people up to have a very high probability of a negative experience isn’t good for the game.
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Oh that’s rich. The few telling the many not to be selfish. I would rather give them the chance then not. It’s their choice, not yours. Center of the universe again.
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Why dont "the many" make their own groups? 🤔
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Because lfg posts with “first time raiding” or the like with one person in it never fill up. I’ve made and seen plenty. Sherpas are way fewer today then back in the day as well. That might have something to do with it. Lfg isn’t some end all be all. That’s been obvious for years. Especially since raid participation hasn’t really changed. So I dunno. Seems like it isn’t enough.
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But all these people "who just want to try the Raid" would fill them up, surely?! 🧐
