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9/25/2019 2:12:18 AM
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Destiny requires windows to run. Use of any thing that can be considered emulation can result in a ban. The note on the Steam page notes that it requires Windows.
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I know that this is currently is so, but thanks to steams proton, it is not really visible anymore that Linux is *not* supported / at least run on proton, thats why i ask if they could add a note for it instead of "innocently banning" when starting it and i ask because in some thread they said they might consider looking into proton
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Proton uses Wine, and Wine is not Windows; Wine is an emulator by Bungie's definition. I'm not sure where you saw that they were looking into Proton. Could you please provide a link to this post?
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Edited by hasezoey: 9/25/2019 10:22:58 AMyes, this thread https://www.bungie.net/de/Forums/Post/252369167 quote: "At this time, it will not be possible to play Destiny 2 on Steam Play, but it's possible we will re-evaluate that closer to launch in September." - BNGHelp6 and i think they mentioned it in another thread too --- this is why i ask again, to get any news on this
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Edited by ADragonWithin: 9/25/2019 10:50:32 AMSteam Play and Proton are two entirely different things. Steam Play requires a version of the game on each platform for use; there's no Linux or Mac version of Destiny 2, and as such, Steam Play outright doesn't support it. You can view more information about Steam Play here: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=9439-QHKN-1308 At this time, Destiny 2 has not been released on Mac or Linux. It's not applicable for Steam Play (Steam Play is a multi-platform license offered by Steam for some products; you buy the product on one platform and gain an version that works on every applicable platform). - Proton, on the other hand, lets you play a Windows game on a Non-Windows-Based platform. For Linux, it uses Wine. It's an emulator system by Bungie's standards.
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[quote]Steam Play and Proton are two entirely different things. Steam Play requires a version of the game on each platform for use; there's no Linux or Mac version of Destiny 2, and as such, Steam Play outright doesn't support it.[/quote] This is completely wrong, and it worries me that this is an official moderator statement. Steam Play [i]is[/i] Proton. Or, rather it [i]uses[/i] Proton. No, you do not need an existing Linux version to run a game on Steam Play. The entire point of Steam Play is you don't need an existing Linux version. I run many, many Steam games through Steam Play that have no native Linux version. A post for everyone else: First, repeating the "Wine Is not an Emulator" mantra blindly doesn't actually help anyone. You're making the Wine community look childish and causing a headache for the moderator team trying to communicate with you. People not deeply invested in the semantics of compatibility layers really do not have the time to figure out the difference [i]when the end result is the same[/i]: Wine is not Genuine Windows (we are trying to run it on the Linux kernel, instead of the Windows NT kernel, after all), it's not allowed by Bungie. Second, in all fairness, Destiny 2 never actually ran in Wine. The anticheat locks up and the game doesn't launch. Everyone who made it to the game were using a source code patch that (whether the end user was aware or not) crippled the anticheat - and they were [i]still[/i] banned. If you weren't aware, tough luck, don't randomly use patches you find on the internet. It's like not copy-pasting in bash commands you find on the internet- if you don't understand what this does, why are you trusting what a random, unverified stranger tells you to run on your machine? Regardless, I feel that a ban on emulation and compatibility layers is in false faith. Enforcing "Genuine Windows" does not guarantee that the OS isn't compromised. In the end, why should Bungie trust a client running on our machines in the first place? If the anticheat being worked around is an issue, shouldn't server-side validation be implemented?
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Edited by ADragonWithin: 9/29/2019 8:35:05 AMMy information is from the knowledge base article before it was recently changed. You can see that version of the article here: https://web.archive.org/web/20190920131000/https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=9439-QHKN-1308 That snapshot is from September 20th, only a little over a week ago, and when I went to find information on Steam Play in response to another post, the information you see in that Snapshot is the information that was available to me. At that time, as you can see from the snapshot, a game specifically has to be Steam Play compatible and have a version on each platform in question in order to do so. At that time, Proton was not mentioned, and the references I found to Proton were that it used Wine, and it did not connect Proton to Steam Play. That information has since changed and now refers to a more complete article with more information, since Valve has released a new version of Steam Play as of the 21st. That new launch article is at https://steamcommunity.com/games/221410/announcements/detail/1696055855739350561 . I do apologize that my information was not up to the second, but I do hope you can appreciate that the last time I did update my information was less than two weeks ago and that, to my knowledge, my information was correct. I did not intentionally say something misleading or incorrect. You can plainly see the updated knowledgebase article says "As a result of this work, today we are releasing the Beta of a new and improved version of Steam Play to all Linux users!" That article was posted on the 21st. The new article states that Steam Play comes packaged with Proton (which means, as I stated before, that they are, indeed, two different things; the new adaptation of Steam Play can use Proton if necessary). It still works the way it did before if there is a Linux version of the game. If there is not, then Steam Play will use the built in 'not an emulator' extension to run the game on a system that is not Windows, thus emulating Windows for the sake of playing the game. - Regardless of what a program may or may not do and how it may or may not allow running of a game, Destiny 2 officially has a system requirement of Windows. Bungie's policy is what it is in the department of changing how the program runs, and translating system calls to enable play of the game on a system that is not running Windows is changing how the program runs, even if indirect. So a user is taking a chance at a ban, should they decide to do so. I cannot say that it will or will not lead to a ban, as that information is not available to me. - If you'd like to request a change of this policy, your best bet would be to post over in Destiny 2 - Freedback.
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Thank you for your understanding, and I apologise for the original response. I hope both I and the rest of the Wine community will be more professional to your moderating team in the future.
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I’ve seen players get banned for using Wine to play this game so I wouldn’t recommend it
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First, the Wine community is already very, very aware. Second, I have already stated what is now known about the bans and the misconceptions, and it is quite rude that you didn't actually read any of that before responding. I'm not stupid. I'm well aware that using Wine is "not recommended". The entire reason why I made the second half of the post [i]was to bring people onto the same page so it can be changed without slogging through communication issues[/i]. We're not going to get anywhere if we're held up on semantics and misconceptions.
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Hi DragonWithin, Its funny you should provide this link: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=9439-QHKN-1308 If you actually read it: [quote] Introducing a new version of Steam Play So, two years ago, we started an effort to improve the quality and performance of Windows compatibility solutions for Steam games. A lot of our work has been in the form of supporting Wine and other existing compatibility projects. We have also been integrating these tools into the Steam client to provide the same simple plug-and-play experience offered by regular Linux games. Our goal for this work is to let Linux Steam users enjoy easy access to a larger back catalog. We think it will also allow future developers to easily leverage their work from other platforms to target Linux. This would give them the option of focusing on areas that would make a meaningful experience difference for all users instead, such as supporting Vulkan. As a result of this work, today we are releasing the Beta of a new and improved version of Steam Play to all Linux users! It includes a modified distribution of Wine, called Proton, to provide compatibility with Windows game titles. Here are some of the improvements it brings to the table[/quote] Also WINE literally stands for WINE IS NOT AN EMULATOR, It is not an emulator. I mean you provide a link to an article explicitly stating that steam play is a compatibility solution for allowing Linux gamer's to play windows games, and wrongly then classify WINE as an emulator, I mean you do it with such authority, without actually checking facts. Please before commenting on a subject actually check facts, or if you know nothing about the subject, just refrain from commenting. Also Destiny 2 is being released on Stadia, Stadia is from the ground up built and running on Linux Debian using Vulkan - All games on Stadia are running on Linux, so asking for at least Steam Play support for us Linux users, really isn't that much of a stretch - we just want to be sure that we don't get banned for trying to play this game on our platform of choice. I also would love to know if at least steam play support is provided, Vulkan renderer being provided with the release of this version of the game would be great, a native Linux client using Vulkan would be truly wonderful.
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You're right, Wine is a compatibility layer, but because of that it's more difficult to anticipate how an application like Destiny 2 will behave when being executed through Wine. Since New Light will be free for all users, it shouldn't be difficult to set up a burner Steam account to see how well it runs, and whether or not your account gets identified for an ban before logging in with your main account. Because Stadia is a separate platform running on a consistent configuration, it's easier to ensure that the end result will be a quality experience.
