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9/9/2010 3:52:52 AM
571
Forge Lessons - Lesson 49-51 (1/19/12)
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/p/forge-lessons.html]Download PDF w/ Lessons 1-51[/url] [LAST UPDATED: 11/22/11]
[i]Join like minded level designers on my game/level design blog @ [url=http://www.reachingperfection.com]ReachingPerfection.com[/url] where I fill you in on many things in the level design world. You can also join [url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/p/forum.html]our forums[/url] to meet other people that enjoy game/level design just as much as you do. ;)[/i]
[b][u]Forge Lesson Index[/u][/b]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/08/lesson-1-first-impressions.html]Lesson 1: First Impressions[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/08/lesson-2-knowledge-is-power.html]Lesson 2: Knowledge is Power[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/08/lesson-3-path-manipulation.html]Lesson 3: Path Manipulation[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/08/lesson-4-perspectives.html]Lesson 4: Perspectives[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/08/lesson-5-deterrents.html]Lesson 5: Deterrents[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/08/lesson-6-incentives.html]Lesson 6: Incentives[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/08/lesson-7-combat-congestion-and-traffic.html]Lesson 7: Combat Congestion and Traffic[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/08/lesson-8-eye-catching.html]Lesson 8: Eye Catching[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/08/lesson-9-perspective-variance.html]Lesson 9: Perspective Variance[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/08/lesson-10-spawn-perspectives.html]Lesson 10: Spawn Perspectives[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/08/lesson-11-smooth-spawning.html]Lesson 11: Smooth Spawning[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/08/lesson-12-path-maps.html]Lesson 12: Path Maps[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/08/lesson-13-area-introduction.html]Lesson 13: Area Introduction[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/08/lesson-14-essence.html]Lesson 14: Essence[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/08/lesson-15-purpose.html]Lesson 15: Purpose[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/08/lesson-16-innovation.html]Lesson 16: Innovation[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/09/lesson-17-color-contrast.html]Lesson 17: Color Contrast[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/09/lesson-18-patience.html]Lesson 18: Patience[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/09/lesson-19-threat-zones.html]Lesson 19: Threat Zones[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/09/lesson-20-safe-spawning.html]Lesson 20: Safe Spawning[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/09/lesson-21-incentive-weighting.html]Lesson 21: Incentive Weighting[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/09/lesson-22-rule-of-thirds.html]Lesson 22: Rule of Thirds[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/09/lesson-23-static-perspectives.html]Lesson 23: Static Perspectives[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/09/lesson-24-advertising.html]Lesson 24: Advertising[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/09/lesson-25-investment.html]Lesson 25: Investment[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/09/lesson-26-nurturing.html]Lesson 26: Nurturing[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/10/lesson-27-reputation.html]Lesson 27: Reputation[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/10/lesson-28-perspective-direction.html]Lesson 28: Perspective Direction[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/10/lesson-29-degree-of-focus.html]Lesson 29: Degree of Focus[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/10/lesson-30-application.html]Lesson 30: Application[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/10/lesson-31-immersion.html]Lesson 31: Immersion[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/10/lesson-32-cohesion.html]Lesson 32: Cohesion[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/10/lesson-33-continuity.html]Lesson 33: Continuity[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/10/lesson-34-peer-review.html]Lesson 34: Peer Review[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/10/lesson-35-failure.html]Lesson 35: Failure[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/11/lesson-36-simplicity.html]Lesson 36: Simplicity[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/11/lesson-37-orientation.html]Lesson 37: Orientation[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/11/lesson-38-dance-floor.html]Lesson 38: Dance Floor[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2010/12/lesson-39-dedication.html]Lesson 39: Dedication[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2011/01/lesson-40-foreshadowing.html]Lesson 40: Foreshadowing[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2011/01/lesson-41-consistency.html]Lesson 41: Consistency[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2011/01/lesson-42-polish.html]Lesson 42: Polish[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2011/01/lesson-43-lasting-impression.html]Lesson 43: Lasting Impression[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2011/02/lesson-44-aesthetic-noise.html]Lesson 44: Aesthetic Noise[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2011/03/lesson-45-pacing.html]Lesson 45: Pacing[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2011/04/lesson-46-active-engagement.html]Lesson 46: Active Engagement[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2011/04/lesson-47-kleenex-testing.html]Lesson 47: Kleenex Testing[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2011/05/lesson-48-veteran-testing.html]Lesson 48: Veteran Testing[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2011/10/lesson-49-exposure.html]Lesson 49: Exposure[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2011/11/lesson-50-navigation.html]Lesson 50: Navigation[/url]
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2011/11/lesson-51-audience.html]Lesson 51: Audience[/url]
[b][u]The Short Version... for us lazy folk ;)[/u][/b]
The short and skinny of it is that all of the above lessons are level design theories that are used by level designers in order to make their maps play better. Sure anyone can make a map now in Reach, but can you make a map that will get into matchmaking and be better than everyone else's? These lessons cover advanced design techniques that aren't your normal forging tutorials. They will actually improve your map's spawns (Smooth Spawning and Spawn Perspectives), weapon placement (Incentives), and gameplay. I will be updating as I release each of the BNet threads. Use this one as a reference and save it somewhere.
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/p/forge-lessons.html]Original Source[/url]
[b][u]The Longer Version for more info[/u][/b]
Are you ready to jump into the powerful tool that is Forge 2.0 to start making maps for you and your friends? Did Halo 3's system frustrate you too much to even try it? Do you aspire to get your map into matchmaking? This will get you prepared for all of those.
Let's all admit that with the new Forge system anyone can build a map. No more geomerging, no more interlocking, or any other painful methods. But just because anyone can make a map easily now doesn't mean that the map is going to play well and people are going to enjoy it. I want to help all of you make your maps and gametypes better. I want to help make your maps play well enough to get into matchmaking. You can't even find this much quality map design help at Forgehub, I guarantee it.
I write this series of level design theory lessons called "Forge Lessons" to help all designers make their maps play the best that they can. They will teach you about how to make your spawns smooth, how to place your weapons (and other incentives), how to get your map noticed, how to fully control every step that your player takes, etc. I cover advanced level design topics used by professional level designers in all games... though I may name the techniques differently ;). Eye catching, perspectives, incentives, deterrents, path manipulation, color contrast, innovation, and area introduction are just some of the topics I cover. I write a new lesson about once a week, sometimes slower.
Some of you may need to ensure that I am actually qualified to teach people. My old GT was AZN FTW. I was one of the original 6 members of Forgehub that turned it from a wordpress blog to a vbulletin forum. I created one of the most popular and iconic gametypes in Halo 3, Conquest. I am one of the two designers of Ravinia, one of the 50+ community maps that got into matchmaking. I am also the designer of Affinity in Halo: Reach's matchmaking system. I have taught many forgers and aspiring designers.
These lessons have been used by teachers to teach high school and college game design classes. Several of them have been featured on Gamasutra and various other game/level design sites. But I'm not going to tell you how good they are. I'll let those who support these lessons tell you. Keep an eye on this thread for testimonials of the lessons from all that read them. Many well known figures amongst the Halo community will take their time to stop by here to let you know what they think about these lessons. If you don't want to trust me, then trust what others have to say for them.
I will update the top of this thread with a link to all of the lessons as I post them and reply to this thread when I post a new one, so save this thread somewhere. You can find all of the original postings with summaries of the lessons on my blog @ [url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/]ReachingPerfection.com[/url]:
[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/p/forge-lessons.html]Forge Lessons[/url]
I hope these lessons help you as much as they have helped everyone who has read them. Enjoy my fellow Halo fans!
[Edited on 01.19.2012 11:02 AM PST]
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O hai, I'm just droppin' in on this thread to say you guys write alot, and you do it alot.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Godly_Perfection Glad you enjoyed it. As for the coliseum windows, they are there to get rid of the slight claustrophobic feel of the map and to give you a breath of fresh air. It also gives the feel of I'm in an actual building, not just a map. It also acts as a nice callout and a landmark to help players orient themselves on the map. Even if I wanted to fix it, I couldn't. I have 0 budget left (literally) and no decorative pieces to recontinue the pattern. That's right folks... I used all 10000 dollars and there is no framerate drop whatsoever. ;) I'm learning this engine quite well. :)[/quote] I suspected it was a budget issue of some sort. But I have to tell you that when I run by those windows I turn my eyes away for fear that I will see outside into Forge World. One thing this has demonstrated is how little of the original Halo theme is carried into Halo Reach and especially the generic Forge World. I would be more than willing to help you promote it to MM. I already am raving about it. I want to see this on MM, perhaps more than any other map, even Flight Deck. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Swordmyth95 Honestly, I wish I would have found this earlier. Any suggestions on how, though, to make a map where all of the pieces are focused on two Spirits and a Pelican more interesting (Invasion - Spartan [Offense]), and another suggestion on how to find a way to get any core carriers a more interesting job other than running 4min across forge world? [/quote] The core is treated as a flag in invasion, except for transport in a vehicle. In that regard, it is treated more as a turret, and there is no way to mount any vehicle with it. But the real question is what type of game play experience are you trying to share by having them transport the core across the map? I have explored this concept for, core, flag, and bomb. For flag and bomb, you can transport in a falcon or a banshee by setting the carrier movement trait vehicle use to full use. That has the drawback of not requiring team work, but it is the only way to mount a falcon in the gunner position with either a flag or bomb. But the game play experience is what I am still struggling with. Like Godly says, I don't want to make a simply jump on a falcon and fly off into the sunset experience. So for now I have put my trans-Forge World project on hold until I can answer that question as well. [Edited on 01.16.2011 8:39 AM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Swordmyth95 Honestly, I wish I would have found this earlier. Any suggestions on how, though, to make a map where all of the pieces are focused on two Spirits and a Pelican more interesting (Invasion - Spartan [Offense]), and another suggestion on how to find a way to get any core carriers a more interesting job other than running 4min across forge world? Plus, having some difficulty: when you set spawn zones in invasion, how do you set the "phase" they are in and how do they become accessible?[/quote] There is a special label for each phase's respawn zone called like Invasion_RSP_ZONE_P1 or something along those lines. As for making carrying a core across forge world interesting, think about the most memorable times you have had in CTF and Invasion core phases and model it after that. A great way to do core/flag is to make it a fight to slowly move it inch by inch towards your objective. That leads to a lot of people screaming in excitement to get the core to their objective and for the defenders to keep fighting to stop you. Try not to make it just one smooth run cuz that is never interesting.
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yeah i wish i found this earlier, its really helpful. thanks a lot [url=http://www.mtgfanatic.com/?ForumReferrerID=108952]Click here for Magic[/url]
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Honestly, I wish I would have found this earlier. Any suggestions on how, though, to make a map where all of the pieces are focused on two Spirits and a Pelican more interesting (Invasion - Spartan [Offense]), and another suggestion on how to find a way to get any core carriers a more interesting job other than running 4min across forge world? Plus, having some difficulty: when you set spawn zones in invasion, how do you set the "phase" they are in and how do they become accessible?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sn1p3r C And there is such an option - physics: normal. This doesn't refer to geometry pieces, but pieces like crates or the soccer ball do move.[/quote] yes, but i would like to make pillars that can be knocked down, building blocks that u can make collapse, not just those very few items that can move in game.
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If you've got a good handle on the engine, it'd be great if you could add a few tips, maybe as a sidebar to the next applicable lesson? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GP I used all 10000 dollars and there is no framerate drop whatsoever. ;) I'm learning this engine quite well. :) [/quote] - - - [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xWillinJapanx cant bungie make a new item a item physics, instead of fazed, fixed, and normal, they should make a new one that makes the object movable in a custom game, like some of those decorative items like a stool that can be pushed by the player we should get an option that makes it possible for other items as well[/quote] And there is such an option - physics: normal. This doesn't refer to geometry pieces, but pieces like crates or the soccer ball do move.
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cant bungie make a new item a item physics, instead of fazed, fixed, and normal, they should make a new one that makes the object movable in a custom game, like some of those decorative items like a stool that can be pushed by the player we should get an option that makes it possible for other items as well
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Glad you enjoyed it. As for the coliseum windows, they are there to get rid of the slight claustrophobic feel of the map and to give you a breath of fresh air. It also gives the feel of I'm in an actual building, not just a map. It also acts as a nice callout and a landmark to help players orient themselves on the map. Even if I wanted to fix it, I couldn't. I have 0 budget left (literally) and no decorative pieces to recontinue the pattern. That's right folks... I used all 10000 dollars and there is no framerate drop whatsoever. ;) I'm learning this engine quite well. :)
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It's there; downloaded it yesterday. [quote]Is it on your fileshare yet?[/quote]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sn1p3r C Hey, Mr. Green, haven't seen you since that Anchor 9 zombie map... any progress? OT: One of the ways you can get around this is to copy that tactic - limit yourself to a select few types of pieces in Forge. And, if your map is too big to stick with them, keep the way you put them together consistent. One of my friends did a map that contained a lot of railings. Every time a railing curved, he'd drop a low column over the juncture. It wasn't flashy, but once he was done, it added a bit of flavor to the railed platform - it really seemed like the map was pulled from somewhere instead of built. Granted, the columns on the railings weren't the only consistent theme, certain spacings in walls of the buildings, consistent angles for ramps, and specifically broken up sight lines all made an appearance, and all helped the map feel like more than some Legos arranged somewhere. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MrGreenWithAGun ...that each of those maps has their own what appear as limited set of structural blocks. Like Boardwalk has nothing but white walls. Their advantage, however, is that they are custom designed for their respective themes. With Forge World, we are given somewhat neutral color generic blocks. We require using illusion to see past the blocks, to hide the blocks. Without it, at least to me, there is nothing but a pile of blocks. [/quote][/quote] I saw some spawning problems, but it turned out that the point of death influencers are the most likely cause, and there is nothing I can do about it. They are too wide of influence for a map the size of anchor 9. I reworked the spawning and will be playing it through out this weekend. I was pleasantly surprised during one game when someone said, "Why can't we play fun maps like this on MM." I really didn't know if the map was turning out all that great, but apparently some people think so. I never forged on anything other than FW up until now. I chose it just by chance. I think I might spend more time on Anchor 9 in the future. @Godly- I took a look at the video you linked to. For the first few seconds, it looked like yet another map of blocks. But when it began to move out into the hallways with the large columns, it began to look interesting. Then it finally got to a point where I could begin to see the Halo theme. I think this is a good start, and honestly if it were in MM it would be a big step up from what they have. Perhaps others can see the halo theme from the first room in your video, or perhaps they initially spawn where they can immediately catch the theme. I could not. But at least it has a theme. That is really good. Update: Played on it with just a couple of people, but I really liked the wide open spaces and tall walls. Very well done. Kudos. The only thing that I would change would be to take out the coliseum windows. Looking at the Forge World from within it sort of looked out of place - you know, the whole cohesion thing. It literally made me stop in my tracks to think, what am I look at here? [Edited on 01.15.2011 12:47 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MrGreenWithAGun [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] superduper66 Looking at the way Forerunner structures are made and their designs, much of the cohesion should already be noticed. When Godly was talking about the community maps, though, you notice lack of cohesion because the pieces don't "weld" together naturally. They look more like Forge pieces, rather than actual Forerunner structure, much like a Lego House looks different than a real house. [/quote] I think you are talking about what I am raising, because you see when I look at the window he said broke cohesion, I didn't think anything was out of place. Why? Because I saw nothing but blocks to begin with. I wrote a blog on FH. If you have an account, please check it out and tell me what you think. I discuss illusion as hiding the blocks by using perception to show what you want to present. It dawned on me that not one non Forge World map lacked a very strong theme. It also occurred to me, partly because someone commented on this, that each of those maps has their own what appear as limited set of structural blocks. Like Boardwalk has nothing but white walls. Their advantage, however, is that they are custom designed for their respective themes. With Forge World, we are given somewhat neutral color generic blocks. We require using illusion to see past the blocks, to hide the blocks. Without it, at least to me, there is nothing but a pile of blocks. If I could have used a "Countdown" palette to build my aircraft carrier on Forge World, the walls would not be blocky, but would look like what you find on a carrier (or at least more like). This would have drastically reduced the need to rely on illusion and utilize more the natural building block materials for my theme. And I have no idea what you mean by Forerunner.[/quote] First of all on the topic of the windows. The windows had bad cohesion because they didn't meld with their surroundings. Sure the map had very bad cohesion in general, but you can't expect to fix that all at once. You can slowly work towards a strong cohesive overall map as long as you take notice to small areas and individual objects and how they interact with their environment. While fixing the windows would not fix the cohesion of the whole map, it will help towards a strong cohesive map. Progressing in small steps helps us slowly reach perfection. ;) Forgeworld does not lack a very strong theme. People just haven't figured out how to craft their own theme quite yet. There is a lot of potential in the forge pieces and you can craft your own theme if you are clever enough. Sure the varying themes do not have very many objects to work with, but with enough ingenuity you can make this happen. I think I did more than just extremely well with my new map [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls74ZDvuIak]Affinity[/url]. It presents very strong cohesion to create a Halo CE theme. I'm learning more and more about cohesion everyday and I hope to start writing about it more in the lessons in the near future. One main thing that I have learned is attention to detail and how one aligns textures when meshing pieces together. Shading is also very important as well as using similar texturing. I haven't learned much about transitioning between textures quite yet, but I'm getting there. There is a lot that one can do to improve the cohesion of their maps and make their map feel like one entity that was not made by a bunch of forge pieces. Whether you believe it or not, the bungie maps are made of prefabricated objects as well. You can being reused everywhere and this is to save on memory. You can see this a lot on forgeworld as a lot of the rocks are the exact same rocks that we have. On Boneyard there are TONS of objects that are reused all over the map. Sure the objects are custom tailored for the map, but we can definitely learn from this. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sn1p3r C Hey, Mr. Green, haven't seen you since that Anchor 9 zombie map... any progress? OT: One of the ways you can get around this is to copy that tactic - limit yourself to a select few types of pieces in Forge. And, if your map is too big to stick with them, keep the way you put them together consistent. One of my friends did a map that contained a lot of railings. Every time a railing curved, he'd drop a low column over the juncture. It wasn't flashy, but once he was done, it added a bit of flavor to the railed platform - it really seemed like the map was pulled from somewhere instead of built. Granted, the columns on the railings weren't the only consistent theme, certain spacings in walls of the buildings, consistent angles for ramps, and specifically broken up sight lines all made an appearance, and all helped the map feel like more than some Legos arranged somewhere.[/quote] Sniper is definitely hit it home with this post. Keeping a strong theme is easy. Find a few objects that you find mesh well together. Take those objects and twist and turn them to your delight. This will ensure a very stong theme is kept throughout your whole map. This is definitely a technique that I used on Affinity to make it very cohesive. When you use the same architecture in several areas it makes the map feel like a whole, like each area relates to each other. The cage does this by using columns as a connector to wield the ramps with the bridges. I'm using this technique right now to find a good set of architectural structures to construct my next map to further study the concept of cohesion. Once I have a nice set of structures I can definitely put it up for download so you can see a good example of cohesion and finding things that work together to make a strong theme.
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Hey, Mr. Green, haven't seen you since that Anchor 9 zombie map... any progress? OT: One of the ways you can get around this is to copy that tactic - limit yourself to a select few types of pieces in Forge. And, if your map is too big to stick with them, keep the way you put them together consistent. One of my friends did a map that contained a lot of railings. Every time a railing curved, he'd drop a low column over the juncture. It wasn't flashy, but once he was done, it added a bit of flavor to the railed platform - it really seemed like the map was pulled from somewhere instead of built. Granted, the columns on the railings weren't the only consistent theme, certain spacings in walls of the buildings, consistent angles for ramps, and specifically broken up sight lines all made an appearance, and all helped the map feel like more than some Legos arranged somewhere. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MrGreenWithAGun ...that each of those maps has their own what appear as limited set of structural blocks. Like Boardwalk has nothing but white walls. Their advantage, however, is that they are custom designed for their respective themes. With Forge World, we are given somewhat neutral color generic blocks. We require using illusion to see past the blocks, to hide the blocks. Without it, at least to me, there is nothing but a pile of blocks. [/quote]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] superduper66 Looking at the way Forerunner structures are made and their designs, much of the cohesion should already be noticed. When Godly was talking about the community maps, though, you notice lack of cohesion because the pieces don't "weld" together naturally. They look more like Forge pieces, rather than actual Forerunner structure, much like a Lego House looks different than a real house. [/quote] I think you are talking about what I am raising, because you see when I look at the window he said broke cohesion, I didn't think anything was out of place. Why? Because I saw nothing but blocks to begin with. I wrote a blog on FH. If you have an account, please check it out and tell me what you think. I discuss illusion as hiding the blocks by using perception to show what you want to present. It dawned on me that not one non Forge World map lacked a very strong theme. It also occurred to me, partly because someone commented on this, that each of those maps has their own what appear as limited set of structural blocks. Like Boardwalk has nothing but white walls. Their advantage, however, is that they are custom designed for their respective themes. With Forge World, we are given somewhat neutral color generic blocks. We require using illusion to see past the blocks, to hide the blocks. Without it, at least to me, there is nothing but a pile of blocks. If I could have used a "Countdown" palette to build my aircraft carrier on Forge World, the walls would not be blocky, but would look like what you find on a carrier (or at least more like). This would have drastically reduced the need to rely on illusion and utilize more the natural building block materials for my theme. And I have no idea what you mean by Forerunner. [Edited on 01.12.2011 1:37 AM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] superduper66 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MrGreenWithAGun [/quote][/quote]Is Tempest a Forerunner structure? Just asking. I played on a remake of Kamino from SWBFII and one of the buildings didn't look forged. You know why? It was natural and was curved so well, It felt like part of the map and not just another item in forge.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MrGreenWithAGun [/quote] You are right, to an extent. maps like Asylum, or The cage have cohesion to an extent. The way they are built feels somewhat natural (maybe not entirely, but thinking from a Forerunner perspective, you should recognize some cohesion). The cage, for example, has walkways that feel naturally built because they are "welded" together by columns, much like bridges/walkways do in real life (or in the fictional case, much like in the Halo universe). Asylum too. The rocks are merely part of the grassy field, and there is a Forerunner structure built in this boulder-y cliffside. Looking at the way Forerunner structures are made and their designs, much of the cohesion should already be noticed. When Godly was talking about the community maps, though, you notice lack of cohesion because the pieces don't "weld" together naturally. They look more like Forge pieces, rather than actual Forerunner structure, much like a Lego House looks different than a real house. Asylum also isn't a great example, because there are way better ways to have built the map using less/different forging pieces. But maps like Hemorrhage, and even Paradiso have very good cohesion. Much of the structures feel natural to the Halo fiction and like actual structures that belong the way they do. To me, it is how you relate these pieces to the Halo universe (Forerunner technology) and making it look like a natural structure. Bridges that feel like part of the overall map, not just a bridge Forge piece, or a Tower that feels like it belongs where it is placed, not just another Forge piece placed. I don't know if what I'm talking about is what you or Godly are specifically talking about, but it is the way I see it (and can express it with words, haha)
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So I thought I should post on this thread about what I realized from posting on your map analysis thread regarding cohesion. Cohesion, as you defined it, is when things seem to fit. The more they fit together, the more cohesion there is in a map. (Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this point.) Someone told me once to add crates to the flight deck of my aircraft carrier for the purpose of providing cover. I said no way, they don't belong there. They would break the cohesion that you are on a flight deck. Someone complained that the Scorpion should never be able to fly via man cannon to the flight deck of the carrier. I realized he was right, that its presence on the flight deck of the carrier was far more destructive to cohesion than crates were. Now take a look at Asylum. There are rocks everywhere. If not one rock was present when Asylum was released, we would not have missed them. We would have assumed that Asylum was designed without rocks scattered through out the field. There would be nothing missing. Why? Because there isn't any real strong cohesion to begin with. On Asylum, you can remove a number of pieces or add a number of pieces, and you won't break the cohesion, because there is little to none to break. I complained about what I called "path maps" as boring, because they are nothing but paths. No theme at all. I realized that what I should have called them was maps full of tossed blocks, no theme, so all you see are blocks. You can move those blocks around in a number of ways, and it doesn't break cohesion. It merely creates a variant of the map. Why? Because the map has little cohesion to begin with. Atom, Asylum, Pinnacle, Hemorrhage, Paradiso, they all have one thing in common. You can add a lot of things or take some things out and you don't break cohesion, because they don't really have much at all. So I came to realize that what makes Flight Deck, Sub System, Exalted, Exodus, and other strongly themed maps strong with cohesion is that they do something the others do not. They present an illusion. That illusion is formed by your perception. The maps are still made of blocks, but when you look at the blocks, you don't see blocks. Your perception kicks in and immediately sees an aircraft carrier, a subway station, a church grounds, a dam, etc. When the illusion is strong, the cohesion is strong. Anything that attempts to interfere with that illusion is immediately recognized as not fitting with the rest of the map. A map with strong cohesion can have its cohesion broken more readily than one with weak or no cohesion. If you cannot nearly immediately see anything but blocks, then the cohesion is weak. And it is in these cases that it becomes difficult to break cohesion, since there is so little illusion to interfere with. Thoughts welcomed...
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These are ale really helpful. Ive bookmarked Thanks a lot!
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MrGreenWithAGun [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Godly_Perfection [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Akdave420 I have another question. How do you make it so people can not turn into the spark? After I am done with the map I want to save and lock it, can this be done?[/quote] Sadly in Halo: Reach, you cannot stop others from turning into monitor mode. Sorry bro. And there is no way to lock your map from being edited. Hope that answers your questions.[/quote] I forge alone because I am paranoid that someone might accidentally (or prank) create a spawn point and throw it in the ocean or break my map in some way I am unaware of. I wouldn't know it until it was used, in game play, when it is too late. This happened once (I did it by accident), I think by my placing it at the edge of a cliff where it fell in. [/quote] Interesting and a very good possibility. I usually forge alone unless I can be 200% sure the other person won't put something ridiculous or unnecessary in my map. An example would be one of my friends placing a random kill ball in the middle of the sky. He said, "Oh sorry, I thought it'd look good as a sun and it would add a nice affect to the map". First, there's already a sun on forgeworld. Second, what nice affect would it have on the map? Third, it's a complete waste of budget. My new year's gaming resolutions are to forge more and play more of a variety of games.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Godly_Perfection [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Akdave420 I have another question. How do you make it so people can not turn into the spark? After I am done with the map I want to save and lock it, can this be done?[/quote] Sadly in Halo: Reach, you cannot stop others from turning into monitor mode. Sorry bro. And there is no way to lock your map from being edited. Hope that answers your questions.[/quote] I forge alone because I am paranoid that someone might accidentally (or prank) create a spawn point and throw it in the ocean or break my map in some way I am unaware of. I wouldn't know it until it was used, in game play, when it is too late. This happened once (I did it by accident), I think by my placing it at the edge of a cliff where it fell in.
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Just in case you missed it on the last page folks: [b]********** NEW LESSON **********[/b] Happy new year folks. The forge lessons are back after a long holiday break and I've come back with a bunch of new topics that the folks and I at the RP forums have been researching. It's good to be back and I hope you guys enjoy the next installment of the forge lesson series. Hope you enjoyed the holidays as much as I did. [url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2011/01/lesson-40-foreshadowing.html]Lesson 40: Foreshadowing[/url] ------- ([url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=54812756]BNet Version[/url]) * Foreshadowing is the act of showing or hinting at something that is coming up in the future * By foreshadowing areas on a map before they come up a designer can help players orient themselves and easily navigate maps * The power of foreshadowing can be used in many situations from teasing players to find an incentive or warning players of high traffic areas
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[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrI4mjirxBU]umad[/url]
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[b]********** NEW LESSON **********[/b] Happy new year folks. The forge lessons are back after a long holiday break and I've come back with a bunch of new topics that the folks and I at the RP forums have been researching. It's good to be back and I hope you guys enjoy the next installment of the forge lesson series. Hope you enjoyed the holidays as much as I did. [url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2011/01/lesson-40-foreshadowing.html]Lesson 40: Foreshadowing[/url] ------- ([url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=54812756]BNet Version[/url]) * Foreshadowing is the act of showing or hinting at something that is coming up in the future * By foreshadowing areas on a map before they come up a designer can help players orient themselves and easily navigate maps * The power of foreshadowing can be used in many situations from teasing players to find an incentive or warning players of high traffic areas [Edited on 01.02.2011 7:40 AM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Godly_Perfection [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Akdave420 I have another question. How do you make it so people can not turn into the spark? After I am done with the map I want to save and lock it, can this be done?[/quote] Sadly in Halo: Reach, you cannot stop others from turning into monitor mode. Sorry bro. And there is no way to lock your map from being edited. Hope that answers your questions. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] iiiFloppyPhoenix Just a quick question: Are these lessons designed to be read in order? Just a yes or no would cover it. Thanks![/quote] While technically they do not need to be read in order, it is highly recommended that you read them in order because I use previous lessons to enforce later lessons, so if you don't want to find yourself jumping from lesson to lesson or confused about a reference then Yes, read them in order. Hope you enjoy the series regardless. ;)[/quote] Okay, thanks. I just wanted to question that because the series of lessons is awfully large, and ever growing. And, BTW, yes, I do enjoy the series. Beautifully written.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Akdave420 I have another question. How do you make it so people can not turn into the spark? After I am done with the map I want to save and lock it, can this be done?[/quote] Sadly in Halo: Reach, you cannot stop others from turning into monitor mode. Sorry bro. And there is no way to lock your map from being edited. Hope that answers your questions. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] iiiFloppyPhoenix Just a quick question: Are these lessons designed to be read in order? Just a yes or no would cover it. Thanks![/quote] While technically they do not need to be read in order, it is highly recommended that you read them in order because I use previous lessons to enforce later lessons, so if you don't want to find yourself jumping from lesson to lesson or confused about a reference then Yes, read them in order. Hope you enjoy the series regardless. ;)
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Just a quick question: Are these lessons designed to be read in order? Just a yes or no would cover it. Thanks!
