If there was some realistic SBMM then I'd agree that 4v4 vs. 6v6 could be just an opinion, especially for quickplay. With just one less-skilled player, or one who leaves, on a team then that team is at a serious disadvantage - especially in the objective-based modes. More of a disadvantage than in 6v6. 5 decent players (with 1 sacrificial lamb) can realistically mange two control points. Or, pick up crests. In Clash you can pick your engagements a little more judiciously. In 4v4...probably not happening that way. You'll be lucky to occasionally control two points, and will be lucky to pick up many of the crests you create. Winning the match = better rewards. More % toward your Crucible engram, more tokens in IB and faction wars, completing the bounties that will begin with the DLC.

[quote]All it needs is better diversity[/quote] With randomize perk rolls is not a thing any more and because of fixed rolls now, what needs now is [b]better variety[/b]. [quote]perhaps more weapons like Fighting Lion, which is an exotic Grenade Launcher that can be used in the Energy slot instead of the Heavy slot. It would be nice to see other exotics that are "out of slot" for their type.. Which goes to contradicting the concept of Destiny 2 weapons format and sneaking back to Destiny year 1-3. Making a few power weapons type like fusion rifle, shotgun and sniper rifle an exotic version that can be use in the energy slot. Ain't that actually going back to the the Primary/Secondary/Heavy loadout. For example if they made Ice Breaker return to the energy slot, what will happen is just another preset popular loadout as the (A) scout rifles (Nameless Midnight) / auto rifle (Uriel's gift) / rocket (grenade) launcher to (B) scout rifle / Ice Breaker / rocket (grenade) launcher. Not so much more diversity because it lacks the variety in the first place. More decent weapons are needed to be put into the game for people to get and take away those useless bad perks out from the game already. Don't tell me that they can't hand pick good decent perks and slap it onto a gun 3D model then put a skin on it, heck ... even old year 1 model can be used, we can't deny that re-skins is a thing here in Destiny from the very beginning till now. [quote]4v4 PvP. Some people are going to like this format better, some are going to prefer 6v6. This is an opinion[/quote] Yes, you are correct about "[quote]some[/quote]" while the oppose "many" prefer 6v6 . [quote]not a problem[/quote] This is also an opinion. [quote]I can't imagine putting 12 people into the current PvP maps[/quote] You don't have to imagine just go and try play the first Destiny, Many maps in Destiny 2 have more than enough space to fit another 2 more players on each side, might even add more gunfights and engagement to the gameplay. Anomaly, Burning Shrine, Asylum, Timekeeper and Sector 618 were the smallest maps in the first Destiny, those maps could was used from 3v3 to 6v6 without any game breaking problems. [quote]it would be utter madness![/quote] You mean chaotic and fun? [quote]PvP time-to-kill. I'm struggling to understand why anyone would want the D1 time-to-kill back[/quote] I'm also struggling to understand why anyone would want this D2 time-to-kill to stay [quote]The longer D2 TTK results in more engaging firefights[/quote] I notice more camping and holding back than in Destiny 1000yrd sniper meta [quote]ability to make feints and flanks[/quote] Feints? You mean running away with a sliver of health when one finally notice he/sh.e made a bad play. Flanks? How, really? The radar now almost can pinpoint the spawn location from a mile away [quote]generally more exciting PvP[/quote] Ummm... If this consider exciting for you then, okay. That explain why some group of people watch golf, sailing, cricket, darts, curling and a few more. [quote]Nightfall Timers. It's there to keep you from creeping through a Nightfall, playing extremely safe, and thereby trivializing the challenge. As an endgame activity, Nightfall Strikes are supposed to be challenging, and the timer is part of that challenge[/quote] Timer doesn't make it any more challenging just pure tedious as you should be able to find many people here include myself already explained in other post. Modifiers, different boss mechanics already was used during TTK and Y3 which was good and received many positive feedback. Back between Y1-2, many had complain about groups than speed run through activities that was why Bungie added Sunrise and score points bounties to add more motivation for players to complete and unlock extra rewards, same in Destiny 2 case timer could be implement in many another way to encourage players such as different tiers of rewards if meets with the set criteria. Timer is just a lazy way to add that fake feeling of challenge. Like those coin-op arcade games that make you race through checkpoint against a clock or game over. [quote]There are a lot of issues that need to be addressed[/quote] Agreed, [b]a lot[/b]! [quote]many of which have been recently acknowledged.[/quote] Actually just a few and for those that they do fianlly acknowledged yet still Bungie response in a vague term as usual. [quote]The game is indeed far from perfect.[/quote] Again, I agree with you on this. [quote]But these four specific design decisions aren't likely to change[/quote] Change will come eventually, when right now most of the core players (hobbyist) that include Bungie big time Youtube/Twitch partners are also leaving or feeling unhappy about what Destiny 2 are at it current state and casual just do what they do, they play the main campaign and quest, do a few crucibles matches and move on to new games or other stuff. [quote]and arguably shouldn't.[/quote] Changed and improvement should be made for the better even if sacrifice and strong decision have to be made. Destiny was slowly change and adjusted to what it was at end of Y3 then Bungie decided to throw away most of the main core and now we finally realize that things didn't turn out the way it should or as planned then how it would be any different to ditch some of stuff in D2 and revert back to D1 format. Destiny coding is not set in stone or running by a high-complex extraterrestrial AI of any sorts.

I agree with everything you said, full stop.

I disagree, I use to like the new system but have grown to see the flaw in it. With not having sniper and shotguns in their own category pretty much makes them obsolete. Rocket launchers are the far superior option for ranged attacks and swords are better for close quarters. With both swords and rocket launchers there is no need to aim, basically. Making them easier, funner, and more effective. Having 2 primaries means picking between 2 weapons that just put out less damage and the previous D1 loadout. 4v4 Should have been only implemented into the competitive playlist. Casual should have remained 6v6. I kind of agree with the TTK, wish it was a little faster but can live with it Nightfall timers do not make the nightfalls challenging, they need to have tougher enemies. However, the 2 primary system won't allow this due to not enough power ammo drops. No one likes to primary a boss to death. We want to feel powerful Here is a summary of what I feel the loot system should be more like. [url]https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/239408890?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1[/url]

Seldom do I so utterly disagree with someone, but I feel you are wrong in every point.

Well said, and civil too, I’ll upvote that. I only wish there were more people like you on the forum!

I see where you are coming from. These are design choices for Destiny 2 that are built well and not inherently broken. The main people who are upset are those who played Destiny 1 and prefer the previous version. It's not like you hear new players complain, they're usually perfectly fine with the systems because they don't any better. I'd say that one of the 'problems' with Destiny 2, is the decision to make sweeping changes to game systems that people enjoyed. So essentially: to welcome new players, Bungie upset its most dedicated players. And this is a problem bc those dedicated players made up the most invested of the destiny community

The only one I don't necessarily agree with you on is #4. I can't say that's the intention of the timers, and I also don't think the timer should be on [b]every[/b] nightfall.

With respect to the Nightfall timers, if they're going to insert challenge in that fashion (which, whatever -- I don't like it, but that's neither here nor there), then the rewards from completing Nightfall ought to be strictly superior to any possible rewards you can get doing less difficult activities. For example, I can get the same milestone reward for doing 4 public events or playing 5-10 crucible matches (both things you can basically faceroll) as I can get from the Nightfall milestone - so there ought to be a more commensurate reward for the nightfall.

[quote]The longer D2 TTK results in more engaging firefights, the ability to make feints and flanks, [b][u]and generally more exciting PvP.[/u][/b] Regardless, this is again an opinion, not a problem.[/quote] That is your opinion. Personally, I do not find this paradigm more exciting to watch or play. And, unfortunately, the streaming community is discovering this as well, with subs leaving because no one really cares to watch Trials of the Nine matches. PUBG and Fortnite are pulling a bigger audience right now, and it is because those games are more exciting to watch, so dedicated D1 streamers are leaving this game in the dust.

People omplan are the people who are bad and are unable to make a opinon if you look at the plaer base its mosty kids and kids get nealy all the info off youtube or twitch and dont realy have there own opinon and i agree with you 6v6 would be madness and nightfall needs timers but i think they should change the power slot because how do you put a shot gun in the same catorgary as a rocket lancher they need to sort out that or last hope, urals and mida can out gun every other gun in the game if they added guns that can balence the game or buff some guns they could make pvp a better place but most people that are mad at it are bad players who miss shots or have bad movment or carnt do the nf in time they tryed to make the game difficalt in serton asspects but the normal player carnt deal with that.

lol

Lmao [spoiler]the hypocrisy, the irony, the 💩 in this post... it's too much [/spoiler]

your number 3 is wrong, just staright up wrong, sorry d1 TTK was broken due to being able to almost exclusively rely on OHK weaponry through a entire match. D1 PRIMARY WEAPON TIME TO KILL, was fine, great even. THAT IS WHAT WE WANT BACK.

If they're [i]common[/i], they're a problem.

what you listed arent that big of issues. the lack of prestige rewards is a joke. the game is way too -blam!-ing easy and people get the same free shit for being in a clan as the people who busted their ass running raids trials... etc. There is literally no reason to play the tough content. Just clan hop and get free shit.