TO VAULTING FROG Yes, however having known that after genetical augmentations performed on SpartanIIs at the age of 16, only half of all SpartanIIs survived. Intense training is not what caused half of all potential spartans to be severely physically disabled or dead. At the age of 16, after years of intense training, all Spartan IIs were put under legaly authorised genetical augmentation procedures. This accounts for their great height and strength. You've heard of Dr. Catherine Hansely, haven't you? She was the brainchild of the whole Spartan programme and the use of genetical augmentations. Spartan Is were the ones that did not have any genetical alterations made. [Edited on 10.07.2009 3:58 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] VautlingFrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ZundayXx Vaulting, those are very good Statements. But i'm not really understanding your cause.[/quote] Regular Marines and ODSTs held the line for 27 years on the ground in every combat action against the Covenant. Even in Halo CE's timeline ODSTs and Marines set up an actual base on the ring and successfully excecuted an excape plan of stealing a [i]CCS[/i]-class Battle Crusier and took off from the ring. Only an ODST who understood what the Flood was about changed their survival. She took out the drive lines of that vessel and forced it to crash back onto the ring, blowing up in the process. And yes those Marines and ODSTs survived several attacks from the Flood and managed to capture one alive. More than what Spartan-117 did. Point being they did the work during the war. Spartans played a very small part in it. More or less dropping in a nuke in a good spot then running away. Either that or helping evac civilians from a planet under siege. Thats under the cover of the Marines and ODSTs. They did more for the war that the Spartans did up to Halo CE. And then it was only one single Spartan who managed to save the galaxy (once on his own and another time with the help of the Flood/Marines/ODSTs/Elites/Arbiter). And even then he nearly was turned into a Flood himself during those events. If it werent for Cortana there wouldnt be a Spartan-117 after Halo CE.[/quote] Hooah

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ACAce23 And ODST's are just plain awesome. Spartans can be better all they want, but that doesn't stop ODST's from being more awesome.[/quote] Whats not awesome about a 7ft tall supersolider in 2000lb armor that has a half nude A.I. sidekick?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] paintnut [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ACAce23 And ODST's are just plain awesome. Spartans can be better all they want, but that doesn't stop ODST's from being more awesome.[/quote] Whats not awesome about a 7ft tall supersolider in 2000lb armor that has a half nude A.I. sidekick? [/quote] That his armour makes him look like a pansy, he has no other actual life, most likely couldn't get laid...

spartans can do everything an odst can do but better

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ACAce23 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] paintnut [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ACAce23 And ODST's are just plain awesome. Spartans can be better all they want, but that doesn't stop ODST's from being more awesome.[/quote] Whats not awesome about a 7ft tall supersolider in 2000lb armor that has a half nude A.I. sidekick? [/quote] That his armour makes him look like a pansy, he has no other actual life, most likely couldn't get laid...[/quote] How does armor that gives you the ability to lift a small car pansy-ish? Fighting IS his life, Just in case you forgot. And did you seriously just play the "Never get laid" card?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] paintnut [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ACAce23 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] paintnut [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ACAce23 And ODST's are just plain awesome. Spartans can be better all they want, but that doesn't stop ODST's from being more awesome.[/quote] Whats not awesome about a 7ft tall supersolider in 2000lb armor that has a half nude A.I. sidekick? [/quote] That his armour makes him look like a pansy, he has no other actual life, most likely couldn't get laid...[/quote] How does armor that gives you the ability to lift a small car pansy-ish? Fighting IS his life, Just in case you forgot. And did you seriously just play the "Never get laid" card?[/quote] Yes i went there. War is not a constant, so how the heck would someone like John ever assimilate into the civilian population again? There was only one, ONE case of successful assimilation of a SPARTAN II. He would have no sense of morality because he never had a family or a childhood. WW1 vets for example found it so damn difficult to come back that many resorted to suicide. Fighting as a life is no life at all. You become simply a tool. And i never said anything on his suit's abilities. His suit still looks stupid.

No thats is what he was trained to do and at the end into the freezer or cryo tube. Rest in peace spartans!

Spartan > ODST Masterchief. nuf said.

um considering Master chief beat the pulp outa 3 ODST marines when he was only 14 and didn't have his armor or anything like that it's obvious a fully developed spartan would destroy full squads of ODST marines.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] VautlingFrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ZundayXx But still. Spartans > ODST's. Spartans have WAY more combat training, WAY better equipment, Shields, Higher stamina, more melee power. Everything is better on them, thats why they're advanced infantry...[/quote] ODSTs are regular Marine infantry that request to be put into the ODST training program. They already have actual combat experience under their belts before they even begin their ODST training. Honestly they have about the same amount of training. Spartans are no more skilled than an ODST. The armor they wear however gives them a huge advantage over an ODST. With out the armor they are no better soldiers than the rest of humanity. But to prevent hard feelings about my opinion I give you this: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3jFTzhdZF4&feature=channel]Link[/url][/quote] Im sorry but you are wrong, Spartan's are still faster and much, much stronger even without armour. They are far better trained, far better. I recommend you read Fall of Reach my good friend. You'll see what I'm on about. Just for those that havent. When Master Chief was 14 (Mjoliner Armour didnt exist then) he got into a fist fight with 4 ODST's. Needless to say, he beat the absolute -blam!- out of them. He killed 2 and crippled/hospitalised the other 2.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] PMR NYM um considering Master chief beat the pulp outa 3 ODST marines when he was only 14 and didn't have his armor or anything like that it's obvious a fully developed spartan would destroy full squads of ODST marines.[/quote] Is that the only thing you guys regurgitate? This isn't based on ability, its based on awesome. And this is part of the reason why they aren't awesome, because you treat them like lab rats, "fully developed". [Edited on 10.07.2009 5:03 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] VautlingFrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ZundayXx Vaulting, those are very good Statements. But i'm not really understanding your cause.[/quote] Regular Marines and ODSTs held the line for 27 years on the ground in every combat action against the Covenant. Even in Halo CE's timeline ODSTs and Marines set up an actual base on the ring and successfully excecuted an excape plan of stealing a [i]CCS[/i]-class Battle Crusier and took off from the ring. Only an ODST who understood what the Flood was about changed their survival. She took out the drive lines of that vessel and forced it to crash back onto the ring, blowing up in the process. And yes those Marines and ODSTs survived several attacks from the Flood and managed to capture one alive. More than what Spartan-117 did. Point being they did the work during the war. Spartans played a very small part in it. More or less dropping in a nuke in a good spot then running away. Either that or helping evac civilians from a planet under siege. Thats under the cover of the Marines and ODSTs. They did more for the war that the Spartans did up to Halo CE. And then it was only one single Spartan who managed to save the galaxy (once on his own and another time with the help of the Flood/Marines/ODSTs/Elites/Arbiter). And even then he nearly was turned into a Flood himself during those events. If it werent for Cortana there wouldnt be a Spartan-117 after Halo CE.[/quote] and yet, without the spartans, the war would have been lost years ago. The spartans have more confirmed kills than ALL of the ODST divisions. Yes, without ODST's and marines, humanity would have been washed away but without the Spartan's, mankind would not have won. Besides, you have obviously read "The Flood" book, because you mention the bases and operations the marines/ODST's took. The only reason MC didn't help capture any flood was because around that time, MC was at the control room of Halo/Guilty Spark level or The library. MC single handedly fought through what those ODST's could not have. Also, MC didnt take part in most of those operations because he was ordered to do other things, (Silva? I think) didnt like the Spartans, he thought they were freaks and particularly resent MC for killing and beating up some of his men all that time ago.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ACAce23 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] PMR NYM um considering Master chief beat the pulp outa 3 ODST marines when he was only 14 and didn't have his armor or anything like that it's obvious a fully developed spartan would destroy full squads of ODST marines.[/quote] Is that the only thing you guys regurgitate? This isn't based on ability, its based on awesome. And this is part of the reason why they aren't awesome, because you treat them like lab rats, "fully developed".[/quote] This is a "Who is more awesome, ODST's or Spartans" its "ODST's Vs Spartans" which means who is better in terms of ability.

i cant believe this thread went on to two pages. just absurd. and odst is essentially a spartan without the genetic growth horomones, cloning, mjolnir armor, and the training from 6 years old. odsts are better in the fact they choose to do this and knwo there can be other stuff to do. spartans had no choice. they were tortured and mutilated throughout thyre childhood in hopes of a few surviving. in a fist fight, the books clearly stated, when joh FIRST got into his armor, he annihilated 7 ranking odsts. and even without his armor he put 3 in the hospital. so really there is no more comparison its basically a matter of preference. do you want to be a psychotic marine who jumps feet first into the middle of a battle with no hope of survival, or do you want to be a navy supersoldier who who jumps feet first into the middle of a battle with no hope of survival, but has special armor and ai in your skull.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RobInDantePose [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ACAce23 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] PMR NYM um considering Master chief beat the pulp outa 3 ODST marines when he was only 14 and didn't have his armor or anything like that it's obvious a fully developed spartan would destroy full squads of ODST marines.[/quote] Is that the only thing you guys regurgitate? This isn't based on ability, its based on awesome. And this is part of the reason why they aren't awesome, because you treat them like lab rats, "fully developed".[/quote] This is a "Who is more awesome, ODST's or Spartans" its "ODST's Vs Spartans" which means who is better in terms of ability.[/quote] No, it is because it is a given that SPARTAN abilties > that of ODST's as fact. If it were based on ability alone you would see 100% Spartan

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] VautlingFrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Acres 057 If I'm not mistaken, Spartan II candidate training lasted about 11 years. I'm pretty sure ODST training isn't 11 years long.[/quote] Length of training isnt an issue. What you have discounted is that ODSTs go through Standard Marine training [b][u]and[/u][/b] ODST training. Two completely seperate programs with different levels of intensity. Not to mention the actual combat experience they all have before even going through that second round of training. That gives them a huge edge on the Spartans. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ZundayXx Do Marines start their training at the age of 6?? No. Do Spartans start their training at the age of 6?? Yes. Probably the only living marine out theyre that has more combat experience then a Spartan is Johnson, but i don't see a giant army of Johnsons hopping arround xD[/quote] Do they need to start at age 6? No they most certainly dont. The Spartan training program is no more intense than a standard Marines training program. Just drawn out longer. It builds a fight reflex into their minds but that can be accomplished over a period of months not years. The only reason their training program went on as long as it did was due to the length of development the augmentations required as well as developing their armor suits. That takes the majority of the time. They were combat ready in a year or less in reality. Same as any Marine.[/quote] I have a feeling that you do not know what you are on about, good sir. Have you read the books at all? Their training started a 6, they were pushed everyday to become the best they could be. They learnt how to survive on their own, as part of a squad, how to fight, how to shoot, how to do everything over the course of EIGHT YEARS. Once they received their augmentations, they took a massive step up. Their teamwork evolved to the point where they developed an almost "telepathic" understanding of each other. I'm going to say, read the Fall of Reach. I can't be bothered to quote out of the book, I can't be bothered to explain why Spartan's are better than ODST's and better trained in EVERY SINGLE WAY. Fall of Reach will explain it in a better way than I could. And it would stop you making a fool of yourself spouting nonsense :)

Spartans would win.

odsts = pwnt.

spartans = trained from age 6 ODSTs = volunteer service Spartans = Shields + Mjolnir armor ODSTs = no shields + no Mjolnir armor Spartans = genetically altered ODSTs = High grade marines SPARTANS > ODSTs

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] stuart832 spartans = trained from age 6 ODSTs = volunteer service Spartans = Shields + Mjolnir armor ODSTs = no shields + no Mjolnir armor Spartans = genetically altered ODSTs = High grade marines SPARTANS > ODSTs[/quote] odst = no shields, SPI armor

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RobInDantePose I have a feeling that you do not know what you are on about, good sir. Have you read the books at all?[/quote] Let me stop you right there. I have already had to purchase 3 copies of each book because I have read them so often. I have forgotten more about those books than you probably remember. And I have forotten damn little. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RobInDantePose Their training started a 6, they were pushed everyday to become the best they could be. They learnt how to survive on their own, as part of a squad, how to fight, how to shoot, how to do everything over the course of EIGHT YEARS.[/quote] Notice, regular Marines training them. So special weapons training. Nothing out of the ordinary for regular Marine training. In fact they used the exact same obstical courses and running routes as the rest of the Marines who were/are being trained at that particular base. The only difference is the length of training. With in a year each of those children were combat ready, just like any Marine. However due to the development of the augmentations (which didnt recieve their final testing before aplication in the first quarter of 2525) and the ongoing designing and development of the MJOLNIR armor system (wasnt even complete when they first got it) they were forced to extend their training time. This gave them alot of practice but no real experience. The one good thing that did come out of it was that they forged very close bonds with each other unlike other military units who have men rotated in and out all the time. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RobInDantePose Once they received their augmentations, they took a massive step up. Their teamwork evolved to the point where they developed an almost "telepathic" understanding of each other. I'm going to say, read the Fall of Reach. I can't be bothered to quote out of the book, I can't be bothered to explain why Spartan's are better than ODST's and better trained in EVERY SINGLE WAY. Fall of Reach will explain it in a better way than I could.[/quote] They were in "training" (more like reconditioning) for 5 months. That is due to them fully adjusting to their new physical performances. And most of it was spent in space on the [i]Atlas[/i]. And I am quite certain they spent a large amount of that time in the cryochambers. Please reread that book and you will find what I have said to be accurate. There are only two other major differences in their training in comparison to a Marines. 1: They went through formal schooling during training. Marines have already gone through that before they even enter the service. This can also account for a lengthy training time. Dont want an uneducated soldier now do we. 2: They are given training to pilot any UNSC vessel up to a Pelican. However this still can be debated as it may have been done during their active war time instead of during boot camp. of the two I find that the latter idea is the more likely. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RobInDantePose And it would stop you making a fool of yourself spouting nonsense :)[/quote] Just because I am not enamored by the "legends" of the Spartans doesnt mean I "spout nonsense". I do find them to be great soldiers, in their armor and out side of it. However outside of it they are basicly no better than an ODST in terms of skill and in alot of cases physical ability. Please keep your snide comments to yourself next time as they do you little credit. And as for the genetic manipulation, the answer is still a no. They were not geneticly manipulated in any way shape or form. There were a few mutations as well as accidents that occured during the augmentation process that killed many of them and left several others deformed. And yet again those "deformities" were documented side effects of the augmentations. They were not unexpected. The fact of the matter is in order to do genetic manipulation you have to go down on to a scale equivilent of a DNA strand and physicly move parts of the strand around to create an all together different compound. As this does not occur in the Spartan-II augmentation process it is not genetic manipulation. In the Spartan-III process there is a slight manipulation, however the term "mutation" is more appropate. It doesnt actually alter the DNA or genetic coding of the subject however it does enhance particular areas of the brain that allow more basic or "animalistic" instincts to be reached easier during times of stress. Again no genetic manipulation. Oh and before I forget, their kill record doesnt exceed all of the ODST divisions. I will quote: [b][u]First Strike[/u][/b], page 104 paragraph 4: ""Those 'freaks,'" Hood said over his protest, "have more confirmed kills than any [i]three[/i] divisions of ODSTs and have garnered every major citation the UNSC awards." (Thats from memory) [Edited on 10.07.2009 2:36 PM PDT]

Spartans still > ODSTs Masterchief. Halos stopped. nuf said.

Spartans man! Why do you even ask this question?

who.cares.dude.its.a.game.a.god.damn.GAME.you.guys.are.nuts.lolz.get.some.cookies.and.stick.them.into.MC's.ASS.or.ODST.well.i.will.go.OUTSIDE.now.and.meet.my.GIRLFRIEND.yea.GIRLFRIEND.you.guys.know.that?

ODST's are way cooler, but spartans can do whatever they want because they are too good...